Ranzimus
Joined: Oct 05, 2007
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 Posted:
Jun 12, 2025 - 21:54 |
 
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officious ref is the worst. with throw a rock you could at least use an apo. |
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"BANG BANG!" - The Gunwitch |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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Jun 12, 2025 - 22:54 |
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Drrek
Joined: Jul 23, 2012
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Jun 12, 2025 - 23:55 |
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I preferred throw a rock cause it was funny for the crowd to kill legends |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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Jun 13, 2025 - 00:31 |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Jun 13, 2025 - 12:10 |
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I hate not being able to drop rrs during a Season. It reduces roster management's flexibility. |
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JackassRampant
Joined: Feb 26, 2011
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Jun 13, 2025 - 21:46 |
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Funny, I like it because it makes management harder. Like, "do you REALLY want that RR, knowing you have to keep it for 6 more games?" |
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Lude enixe, obliviscatur timor. |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Jun 13, 2025 - 22:08 |
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I don't find that a hard management choice. I know how many rrs I want, most bash and hybrid teams are fine with 2 rrs + Leader or 3 rrs (it's possible to play with 1 rr + Leader of course, but that's a kind of heavy minmaxing I despise), while Elves and Vampires with 3 rrs + Leader, because more reliant on single-die actions. My problem is when a player with Leader dies, so I have to buy the rr at double price and probably replace the dead player as well.
In case of Elves it can be a problem, because they die often and are expensive to replace.
Sometimes I can only rebuy the rr and not replace the player (typically a Thrower).
Then, when the Thrower gets Leader, I have too many rrs (I can take first Sure Hands on him, but then, when the Season is over and I want to drop a rr, I have to play some games without Leader).
That puts the team in a bad TV zone and that means more damage suffered and more players to replace (or even struggling to find a game, since most games take place at low TV).
Being able to drop a rr would be better (or at least, we should have a shorter Season set at 10 games, 15 games are clearly too many, in my opinion). |
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Sp00keh
Joined: Dec 06, 2011
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Jun 14, 2025 - 11:27 |
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I'd drop a RR once the team gets Leader, yes. Elves, Underworld, etc
I'd start Amazons with 4 RR but drop one, once the Blockers and Blitzers have Block
I'd start Norse with 3 RR but drop one, once the Ulfs and Valk have Block
It's not a team building problem that prompts interesting analysis, unfortunately
If I can't drop them during first season then I'll take the larger amount to ensure the early games are more reliable, and suffer the inefficency in the later games
So it's just a bit annoying, rather than interesting, imo |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Jun 14, 2025 - 14:01 |
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About Prayers: they could be either removed, to slim the rules up (with the option to use them in private leagues), or just add bonus meta-game effects: for example, SPPs boosts for Casualties, Completions, fouls, crowdsurfs or extra gold earned.
They should not have in-game effects, such as extra skills, +AV, -1 MA, -1 to Rushes etc. because they can unbalance a match. |
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Ranzimus
Joined: Oct 05, 2007
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Jun 14, 2025 - 15:27 |
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Officious ref is the worst. at least with throw a rock, you could employ your apo if necessary. Far too random and stupid. |
_________________
"BANG BANG!" - The Gunwitch |
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Ranzimus
Joined: Oct 05, 2007
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| Posted:
Jun 14, 2025 - 15:27 |
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Officious ref is the worst. at least with throw a rock, you could employ your apo if necessary. Far too random and stupid. |
_________________
"BANG BANG!" - The Gunwitch |
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Ranzimus
Joined: Oct 05, 2007
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Jun 14, 2025 - 15:28 |
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Officious ref is the worst. at least with throw a rock, you could employ your apo if necessary. Far too random and stupid. |
_________________
"BANG BANG!" - The Gunwitch |
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JackassRampant
Joined: Feb 26, 2011
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Jun 14, 2025 - 17:04 |
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Officious Ref might work better if you could argue/bribe an ejection, and then if Bribes were made cheaper and worse (50k @ 4+, with Goblins getting +2 on the roll), the Officious Ref would be a much better mechanic.
A reasonable cop-out would be to auto-KO the player.
As far as getting rid of Prayers, I think Prayers fit two critical functions, and they have to be relevant in both league and one-off games as a result. We could replace them, but we can't remove them without replacing them.
1) Prayers give Cheerleaders something to do, and the fluff demands cheerleader mechanics.
2) Prayers add a large number of potential silly outcomes that have been part of the game since 3e Deathzone, and are really central to the philosophy of BB.
We could replace them with a RR like before and a card deck, but now we have a card deck, and anyone who's been playing for awhile wants nothing to do with that can of worms, even if they (like me) liked cards in action: too much controversy, too many drawbacks, the current system isn't worse.
We could replace Prayers as a Cheering Fans result with a fan intervention table, which would be fluffier maybe, and might clear up another spot on the main table from Pitch Invasion, but I don't know how it would actually be an improvement and not just a reskin.
We could slim up the table, but our next option down is a d12 that has to be structured like two d6 tables, and frankly, that's reasonable but I've been avoiding it because it's also annoying. However, if I stick with my above logic, changing d16 for d12 is fiiiiine. Would a streamlining help? Not sure. It would limit the ability to add "a bunch of weirdness" and wouldn't really simplify anything, though it would save a little space and shorten the curve getting to the "don't have to look at the book" familiarity level. Meh, six of one.
We could punt on the second objective like a lot of the LRBs did, which is unfortunate but not horrible, and then replace Prayers with a non-reroll Cheering Fans bonus of some sort that can't be strictly metagame. I hate this, but I won't say it ain't workable.
We could shorten it to a d6 or d8 table ... and then do the same thing with Brilliant Coaching. Heh.
We could lean the other way instead, and rather than making it perfunctory, turn it into a bit of a performance with a decision and subtable. Possibly give Brilliant Coaching Cheering Fans wins a few short (d6) tables to pick from: maybe BC would get Inspiration, Dirty Tricks, and Special Plays, while CF would get Inspiration, Generous Donations, or the Twelfth Man.
Inspiration: skills that make you better at stuff you could have tried anyway, rerolls, stuff like that.
Dirty Tricks: custard pie, spy, etc.
Special Plays: skills that let you do things you can't otherwise do, a razzle-dazzle* play to open the drive, etc.
Generous Donations: magic items, bonus Treasury (or Petty Cash), etc.
Twelfth Man: distractions from the crowd, thrown rocks, etc.
* not the broken old card that killed somebody's turn, just the concept.
This means you have a bunch of tables to balance against each other, though, and if you put a common table in (as I did here) that gives them both a hard comparable as a benchmark, which is a bit limiting.
I just don't want to go back to boring. A bonus RR for CF wins and only 11 options on the table (so now only 10) is not fun. |
_________________
Lude enixe, obliviscatur timor. |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Jun 14, 2025 - 19:22 |
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About Officious Ref event (not a fan of it, it could be removed at all), I would tweak it like so:
1: player is temporarily ejected and sent to Reserves for the rest of the drive (Argue the Call, Bribery and Corruption and Bribe can be used); 2+: player is Stunned.
About Cheerleaders' use, I would do this to make them have a greater effect than now:
Blitz!, Quick Snap, Solid Defence: 1D3 + 1 + Assistant Coaches and Cheerleaders. Re-Roll and skills can be used during Blitz! turn. Max 2 A.Coaches and max 2 Cheerleaders (including rostered, temporary, part-time). |
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JackassRampant
Joined: Feb 26, 2011
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Jun 15, 2025 - 00:17 |
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Yeah, but that's streamlined, which I can almost guarantee you isn't the targeted rules aesthetic.
GW is gonna wanna make a to-do out of it, so I figure we should try to triangulate the right to-do, rather than just cut ourselves out of the convo by telling them they're wrong to push their perception of the game's theme. |
_________________
Lude enixe, obliviscatur timor. |
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