RDaneel
Joined: Feb 24, 2023
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  Posted:
Aug 12, 2025 - 21:32 |
 
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| BeanBelly wrote: | | RDaneel wrote: | | my post is more funny... |
When I watch a FUMBBL replay, I fast forward to get through the action quicker.
Oftentimes when I read the forum, I roll the little wheel on my mouse, to fast forward through the action quicker. I can't read the words at that speed - but as I've already decided my opinions are right - it doesn't matter.
wink emoji  |
to enjoy my post you dont have to watch the replay I listed...
You have to roll the little wheel to go bottom of the Match report and enjoy my stupid mistakes (carved into unforgettable shields) |
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To judge a man, one must at least know the secret of his thoughts, his misfortunes, his emotions, Balzac |
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BeanBelly
Joined: Nov 14, 2019
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Aug 12, 2025 - 23:23 |
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I’ve checked it out - nice carving : ) |
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Painting myself into a corner |
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petehodges
Joined: Jan 14, 2023
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| Posted:
Aug 13, 2025 - 10:29 |
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This has been an interesting thread to follow. Here are my observations;
- I would hate to play vs snotlings if they could auto-regenerate a full team in the second half. The little dinghies are hard enough to kill as it is 
- I've always found it strange that in a game with very corruptible referees that there is no way to influence the coin toss.
- I'd be a bit miffed if my opponent fouled me in the first half relentlessly, got players sent off, and then started with a full 11.
However, I'd be interested to try it as having additional gnomes to protect foxes with is always welcome. |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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| Posted:
Aug 13, 2025 - 11:48 |
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| petehodges wrote: | This has been an interesting thread to follow. Here are my observations;
- I would hate to play vs snotlings if they could auto-regenerate a full team in the second half. The little dinghies are hard enough to kill as it is
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While Morglings were clearly an issue, Snotlings, at least in the Box, are not a common opponent; I guess they are not a thing anymore. About the full team: only Snotlings would be replaced, not the Troll and the Pump Wagons. I doesn't look to me terrible.
| petehodges wrote: |
- I'd be a bit miffed if my opponent fouled me in the first half relentlessly, got players sent off, and then started with a full 11. |
Maximum fouls per half is 8: of these 8 fouls not all will be Casualties, especially with my nerfed Injury Table (they would be likely KOs, with 9-10 result). If an opponent fouled relentlessly they would probably have outpositioned players and you should be able to score. Players removed by fouls would be replaced before 2nd Half, that would mitigate the foul removals.
Let's use the current Injury Table and let's assume that all the 8 fouls break the AV (the worst scenario):
Current Injury Table
2-7 Stun 58.33%
8-9 KO 24.99%
10+ CAS 16.66%
Of 8 AV breaks by fouling, the 24.99% is KO, 16.66% CAS
1.99 KO players
1.33 CAS players
3.32 players would be removed, on average, assuming 8/8 AV breaks (which is theorically possible but unlikely to happen, unless your opponent is focussing on gang fouling without defending properly). This using the current Injury table, with my table the removed players would be fewer (2.22 players, for the record).
| petehodges wrote: |
However, I'd be interested to try it as having additional gnomes to protect foxes with is always welcome. |
Yes, they would be guaranteed before 2nd Half start only, though, no additional Gnomes in-between the 2 Halves, for those you would need your own rostered reserves. Gnomes would stay longer on pitch as well, with my Injury Table. |
Last edited by MattDakka on Aug 13, 2025; edited 1 time in total |
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petehodges
Joined: Jan 14, 2023
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Aug 13, 2025 - 12:04 |
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Would foxes stay longer too? That is how to get my vote really. |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Aug 13, 2025 - 12:08 |
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Of course, because my Injury table is basically a normal Injury table with -1 to the 2D6 roll. |
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petehodges
Joined: Jan 14, 2023
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Aug 13, 2025 - 12:11 |
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Perfect, top fox Ayla Hunter approves of this. |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Aug 13, 2025 - 15:38 |
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Hi Matt,
So your house rules are below. Here is my feedback. This way you can keep all your rules thoughts in one place:
I have numbered your ideas, then put a number below with an ‘r’ next to it, for my response.
I have also colour coded your ideas as Red, Amber and Green. Green I think are good ideas. Amber I ‘m neutral on. and Red I think your idea sucks. 😊
Matt Dakka house rules
1, I suggest not to use Season Re-Draft but, if you want to use it, 10-game Season with budget 1300k.
1r, I agree in theory that Season Re-draft is fundamentally bad for the game in its current form. I think a better solution could be reached. I prefer on pitch attrition. I think currently Seasons just restricts the game too much. However with skilling up working as it currently does and with Stat increases working as they currently do the game absolutely needs seasons in order to deal with the other problems this edition throws up… As for the specifics on 10 game season with a budge of 1300k This is in relation to Fumbbl specifically, and not this edition. But I understand why you would prefer this… it would limit pimped teams a bit more. But personally, I like 15 games, because of the BBT tournament. Which imo is the most fun thing outside of L, and because of that I wont play season 2 or more… I have no interest in it.
2, 200,000 max Treasury, no Expensive Mistakes roll.
2r - Why change this? Why limit treasury to a fixed number? You are removing variability in the RPG element of the team building game.
I again think there are better ways to manage Gold than EM, but I don’t think a hard cap is the answer. I think Spiralling Expenses was actually a better mechanic lore wise, though it kicked in too soon because it punished coaches of weaker teams with expensive players in the previous editions. But again, I think there’s a better solution than both EM and SE, that is straightforward, has better lore and is functionally better. But I guess you are probably suggesting these changes as small tweaks to the current edition, rather than your own fully fleshed out edition? ,
3, - Inducements: overdog team can't spend gold to buy Inducements, underdog team can spend max the TV difference.
3r, - This could be Green, but I think I need to understand fully how this rule would operate in your vision of the game. I agree with the first part. But I think you need to write out your full inducement process so I can understand exactly what you mean by “underdog team can spend max the TV difference… Do you mean they can spend Gold in edition to the inducements they receive, or if they spend Gold does it reduce the amount of inducement Gold they receive. I think you just mean – the underdog cannot spend more Gold than they receive in inducement Gold. Which is fair enough..
4- If Season Re-Draft is not used, TV cap set by Commissioner (suggested TV cap 1500). Every player can have up to 60 TV on skills/stat boosts. If, after a match and after purchasing players, rrs, staff, etc., the TV is higher than the TV cap, the team can't be put on Ready status.
4r, - I think this is far too limiting, and dislike it, it makes the game even more cookie cutter, a direction the game has moved heavily towards for it’s detriment, it’s just one more step to turning this game into a permanent Res Tourney. I however do understand that this idea is a reaction to this edition and the TERRIBLE change to how stat increases and doubles now work. If you are doing a wish list, why limit yourself to fixing problems that the current rule set has created, when things have worked much better in previous editions of the game… Just roll them back?
5- Pitch dimensions: 28 x 15 squares instead of 26 x 15. End Zone dimensions: 15 x 1 squares. Touchback if the ball lands on End Zone at Kick-Off.
5r, - No, this is a terrible idea. The dimensions of the pitch are specifically designed to work around the average players Ma being 6 and their potential to do 2 GFI/Rushes, The synergy between Ma6 and half a pitch is perfect currently. I’m guessing this is to make OTT a little harder? There are other ways to make that harder if you really want to…
6- 1 Re-Roll per turn. Tier 3 teams can use more than 1 Re-Roll per turn.
6r, - this would be green, but you have added a weird 2nd half to this. Multi RR a turn has been really bad for the game, it makes OTT far too easy, and TTM far too reliable. It has also made some teams with 70k rrs even worse. I strongly disagree with your Tier 3 can use more than 1 RR idea. RRs rules need to be consistent between all teams. This is rules bloat and there are better way sto buff stunty teams if that is your aim
7, - Max 1 stat boost per characteristic, +MA cost increased to 30 TV. +ST cost decreased to 60 TV. Max MA 10.
7r, - Yes, though only if the current skill up and stat increase system is kept. If it was reverted or changed to something else, then allowing 2 increases would be fine. I also disagree with MA10 again, Ma9 cap is great. Though I suspect this change is because you want each half to be 1 square longer. So I’ll give you the benefit of doubt.
8, - Max 1 Star Player.
8r- Why? I would have made this red, but I dislike how stars can play for teams they shouldn’t thematically be able to play for this edition. So I understand there are some nasty combos out there, especially earlier in the edition before Mega Stars were banned. There are also problems with Star Players special rules and costs that need removing and fixing respectively. But generally speaking I don’t see any issues with 2 stars, and see no need for change
9, - After the kicked off ball landed, draw an imaginary line in the attacking team's half pitch, parallel to the half line, 2 squares away from the ball position and towards the attacking team's End Zone: for the rest of the drive the ball can't trespass this imaginary line when carried by an attacking team's player. If they cross it the ball will be randomly dropped with turnover in 1 of 3 possible squares adjacent to the line and the attacking player (it could go out of the pitch if dropped by a player adjacent to a side line, in that case the ball is throw-in). Ball can't be handed off/passed through the line by an attacking player. Defending players carrying the ball are not affected by the line.
9r- No. This is rules bloat and it is not needed
- This reduces the amount of tactical options in the game.
- It hurts teams that are suffering from attrition and receiving 2nd half. It forces them to move up field rather than try and hold on to the win.
- Deep stalling on offence isn’t a problem currently… it’s a bit boring… but isn’t exactly an auto winning strategy. All it does is remove tactical options for 3 or 4 turns, then you engage…
- Throwing already is suboptimal, this rule change makes deep throwing even worse and even more ineffective.
- The rule is bloat and it inelegant.
- You could come up with something better, or a better anti retreating rule.
10- If the attacking team's player carrying the ball can score without rolling any dice and refrains from it, roll a D6 at the end of that turn: first turn of stalling they get hit and knocked down (with AV roll) by a rock from the crowd on a 6+, second turn 5+, third turn 4+ and so on counting down to a minimum of 2+. If the stalling player is hit by a rock the stalling roll doesn't reset to 6+. In case the ball is dropped during a stalling and picked up/caught while bouncing, stalling again, the last result of the thrown rock will be used to continue the rock countdown. If, for example, a stalling player got hit on a 5+ and the ball is picked/caught up by any attacking player, stalling again, they will be hit on a 4+ at the end of the attacking player's turn. Use a big D6 next to End Zone to keep track of the thrown rock roll.
10r- No. Terrible change. Stalling is where most of the games tactical depth comes from. That and risk management. This is one of the worst ideas in this list and there are some bad ones here, but this is truly awful. There is nothing wrong with stalling, and getting hit by a the rock is a MASSIVE NPE (Negative Play Experience). I actually think you’d hate this if it was in the game. All this does it mean people will stall 1 square away from the touchdown range. It just changes the location of the stall…
11 - Positional Journeymen: if a positional player is MNG they are replaced by a Loner (4+) Rookie positional of the same type in the post-match phase (i.e. when Journeymen are added to the roster and before putting the team on Ready status). They can't be healed by the Apothecary.
11r – I understand where you are coming from… But no I don’t like this. I think there could be better changes around squad management, but the problem with this change is it reduces the impact of injuries on a team too much. I think it’s a fine rule for a perpetual environment where you play all your games, but in League it would hurt the impact that injuries have in a league season.
12- Random skills can be taken only by Tier 1 teams' players costing 40k or less. All Tier 2 and 3 teams' players can take random skills.
12r – Why? It’s not a problem? And this is more rules bloat
13- Accurate and Cannoneer merged into a single skill: Accurate.
13r – Yeah this is fine… Again I think Passing needs a bigger re-work but yes this is one solution
14- Brawler: allows to re-roll a Both Down or Both Prone result. Doesn't work when Blitzing.
14r- No, why buff Brawler, it is fine as is. You are making blocking failure too unlikely
15- Disturbing Presence and Foul Appearance merged into a single skill: Disturbing Appearance.
15r - yeah this is fine
16- Fouls not breaking the AV are spotted on a 6; Stun on a 5+; KO on a 4+; CAS on a 3+; Sneaky Git can be used to re-roll the spotting roll. This rule replaces the "spotted when rolling a double on 2D6" fouling mechanic.
16r – I’m not sure yet. So first of all Odds of being sent off:
Your Rules:
Cas = 66.67%, with Sneaky Git 45%
KO= 50%, or 25% with SG
Stun= 33.3%, or 11.1 % with SG
No break= 16.67%, or 2.8% with SG
Current rules:
No Break = 16.67%, with Sneaky Git 0%
Armour break = 30.6%, with Sneaky Git 16.67%
There is argue the call to take into account too. Does your rules allow this? I don’t hate your fouling rules.. I still think IGMEOY is still better due how it hinders extreme tilt, especially if IGMEOY as it was got expanded upon so it got even more likely you got caught after fouling with the eye on you.. But Yeah I think your fouling rules are good. It stops SG preventing sending off entirely on AV breaks, even though it’s unlikely and lore wise it makes sense. It is also straightforward. Although a small criticism is the rolls required are the wrong way round.
17- Hypnotic Gaze: a successful roll cancels the target's Tackle Zone. If a 6 is rolled, all the target's skills are cancelled as well.
17r – Yes this is an excellent idea! Probably the best one yet. Hypno is definitely too strong now. This is a good adjustment. I still think the required roll should be as it was in previous editions rather than as it is now. But it’s still a good change, I’ll be adding this to my rules.
18 - Very Long Legs: as now but it adds +MA. Max MA 10.
18r – yes I agree. I don’t agree with Ma10, I think this should stop at 9, but You want an extra square each half, so I understand why you’ve made it 10…
19- Rush: first square 2+, second square 3+, third square 4+ (with Blizzard 3+, 4+, 5+).
19r- Yes I agree, this is exactly as I have it my rules, though I just said Blizard is -1 to required roll
20- Sure Feet: as now, but it gives +1 to Rush roll as well.
20r – Agree again, this is also exactly as I have it in my rules
21- Stunty: it gives -1 to Passing and Deflection rolls.
21r – I understand why, but there is no need for this rule when you have your own Pa stat. If you want to make stunty players worse just reduce their Pa. It’s unneeded this edition
22- Sure Hands can be taken as General or Agility skill (i.e. Safe Pair of Hands and Sure Hands share the same result in both tables).
22r – I understand why, this is border line amber for me. I did something similar but I just have new skill categories in my edition. So I don’t have overlapping skills in multiple categories, which doesn’t seem right to me. But yeah I get why you are doing this. I just prefer my way of achieving the same thing.
23- Mighty Blow: can be used only if a Pow (not Push/Pow) is rolled. Claws can always be used.
23r – No. definitely not. Especially when your rules already have a MUCH softer injury table and a buffed apothecary.
24 - Ball: since a hand must be used to hold it, it gives -1 ST to the player carrying it (to a minimum of ST 1). Players with either Extra Arms, Monstrous Mouth, Safe Pair Of Hands or Sure Hands ignore the -1 ST modifier. Moreover, the ball carrying player's Tackle Zone doesn't give a -1 to dodge when an opponent player dodges/leaps into it because the ball carrier is busy protecting the ball.
24r- No. You’ve gone too far. Reducing the Strength of the ball carrier is HUGE nerf to St2 players, some of which need a little help already, like the Human Catchers for example, or Slann Catchers. Or Stunty Players…especially as you have removed their cumulative tackle zone. I think removing their cumulative tackle zone is quite interesting and could be fun to test. I think it might be too big a buff to Elves though. So Even that on it’s own is probably too much. I just don’t think this is needed. But I think reducing the St is a huge no, the removal of the cumulative TZ is interesting and could help encourage passing a bit more.
25- Every failed KO recovery roll gives a +1 stacking modifier to the next recovery roll of that player. To remind it on TT, miniature lying face down in KO box: 4+; lying face up in KO box: 3+; standing in KO box: 2+. After all the KO and Regeneration rolls have been made and before the 2nd Half (and Overtime) starts, if either team can't deploy 11 players, normal (not positional) journeymen are added up in order to field 11 players on the pitch. They can't be healed by the Apothecary.
25r – You’ve got 2 rules here. The Ko one I’ve actually tried my self. I also dislike how dicey Kos can be. The problem is it’s too hard to keep track of on TT, having players lying prone rolling around isn’t great. I actually changed my rules so if you have an apothecary, plague doctor or Igor you get +1 to the KO Rolls. And that’s the only change I made. It’s a nerf to Regen teams, which largely need it (nurgle I buffed in other ways), and it makes Apo a more valuable asset. 3+ makes KO returns a lot less dicey, though still possible they can miss multiple consecutive drives, which is needed for game variation. I don’t hate your rule for Kos It’s just a faff on TT.
As for the rule of 11 you have added here. This is also one of your worst ideas. I’ve already explained why multiple times, though you never engaged with the reasons I gave. But basically giving teams 11 players every half massively impacts team balance, it changes fouling efficacy massively. Attrition is a key part of the game and generally favours the team that skilfully out blocks their opponents. I do agree with some kind of anti extreme tilt mechanic because games can spiral out of control, when teams get a 4 players lead things can they can get very very bad quickly, but I think the mechanic needs to happen in game on the pitch. Not just guarantee a full team second half. The rules of 11 just undermines what happens on the pitch in the first drive too much. It invalidates it, and it stops fun scenarios occurring 2nd half, like both teams playing with 9vs9 etc…
26- Dump-Off: when a Blitz against the Dump-Off player is declared, they can decide to throw the ball at any point of the attacker's move, even just before being blocked.
26r- I’m not fussed. Dump Off was fine before, it’s fine now. the only problem with your rule is you have to move 1 square then check if they dump off, next square check again, next square check again. It’s a really boring process, and this used to be how wizards worked. You need to change the wording of this rule to allow a player to use Dump off when the Blitz against them is declared, or just before they roll the block dice. Just those 2 points. That way you mostly achieve the same result, but without a horrible process of asking if they dump off every square of movement
27- Hit and Run: it can be used only if the opponent is not followed up.
27r-I’d rather this skill was removed from the game entirely.
28- Regeneration: when a player regenerates they are placed face down in the KO box.
28r- not sure about this one, it might be too much… But I’d be happy to see it tested.
29- Pass: reduces Wildly Inaccurate to D3 scatter from target square/thrower's square.
29r- yeah not a bad idea. Generally speaking though I think Wildly inaccurate should work as follows: Place the D3 template on the target square, and face it towards the Thrower. Roll D3 for scatter, and D6 for distance of scatter.
This would give you a far better and less ridiculous version for Wildly inaccurate.
30- Safe Pass: turns Wildly Inaccurate into Fumble and Fumble into held ball (no turnover).
30r-yeah that’s fine
31- Strip Ball: as now, but Sure Hands doesn't automatically cancel Strip Ball. Instead, a test is made: (Strip Ball player's ST + AG + D6) > (Sure Hands player's ST + AG + D6) = successful Strip Ball test.
31r- I don’t like it. It’s an unnecessary change. It’s bloat that’s not needed and it changes a clean mechanic into a clunky one where new people need to look up stats etc..
32- Blitz!, Quick Snap, Solid Defence: 1D3 + 1 + Assistant Coaches and Cheerleaders. Re-Roll and skills can be used during Blitz! turn. Max 2 A.Coaches and max 2 Cheerleaders (including rostered, temporary, part-time).
32r- I kind of like it. I don’t think you should limit coaches or cheerleaders in a squad. But - “1D3+ coaches + cheerleaders to a maximum of +3”. would be a more straightforward rule and a bit cleaner.
33- High Kick: it gives a free On The Ball move to a player of the receiving team (instead of placing a player anywhere on their half of the pitch). This movement can stack with the On The Ball skill. -1 to catch the ball if it was kicked by a player with Kick skill. This Kick malus is not applied if, before the High Kick event, the player already was under the ball).
33r- I don’t like this. It’s too clunky. Just leave it alone, high kick isn’t a problem. This is rules bloat. As an aside - I think a kick off table with D6 and D8 would be better though. That way you could have high Kick and bring back Bad Kick and also make some of the worst results slightly more unlikely
34- Changing Weather back to Kick-Off table result 7.
34r-yes
35- Quick Snap: players can't cross the half line.
35r-yes
36- Moles Under The Pitch: the coach who gained the Prayer is not affected by it, unless both coaches gained it. If both coaches rolled it then both coaches get -1 to Rush rolls.
37- Treacherous Trapdoors: 4 trapdoors appear symmetrically, 1 in every wide zone.
36r and 37r- yeah these are fine, but really just get rid of prayers to nuffle. It needs to be completely reworked. It is worthless in its current incarnation, it’s rules bloat and brings nothing fun to the game currently.
38- Officious Ref: 1: player is temporarily ejected and sent to Reserves for the rest of the drive (Argue the Call, Bribery and Corruption and Bribe can be used); 2+: player is Stunned.
38r – Yeah this needs to be fixed
39- Realistic MVP: 4 SPPs are awarded to the player who gained the most SPPs in the match (choose randomly one player in case of same amount of SPPs gained by two or more players). After the 4 SPPs have been assigned, every player (excluding the MVP player) with 0-2 skills/stat boosts earns 1 SPP.
39r – I understand what you are trying to do here. You want it to represent experience in terms of gaining 1 spp every match, but this isn’t needed. You would get big jumps in skills, especially in av9 teams, where all the players would skill up at the same time and if they’re dwarves they’d all get guard at once. Which would be horrible. Also the way skilling up works now is fine. It prevents uniformity. It makes every team you build different from the last. Also MVP to the player that gained most SPP in a match would just exacerbate the stars and scrubs issue, legends would be less special because you’d get unbelievable players very very quickly.
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42- Injury Table (2D6)
40- D6 AG roll conversion to D8 PA roll:
AG 1+: PA 2+ | AG 2+: PA 3+ | AG 3+: PA 4+ | AG 4+: PA 5+ | AG 5+: PA 6+ | AG 6+: PA 7+
Throwing is worked out differently:
D8 PA roll, modified as follows:
Quick: -0; Short: -2; Long; -3; Long Bomb: -4
Attempting a Deflection: -4 to PA roll (the player attempting the deflection rolls a D8 and uses their PA value with -4 modifier)
Wildly Inaccurate: D6 scatter from the target square, Pass skill reduces it to D3 scatter. If the thrower is marked by 1 or more opponents, D6 scatter from thrower's square.
1 before modification: Fumble
modified 1 or less: Wildly Inaccurate
8 before modification: Accurate Pass
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41-D8 Block die replaces the D6 Block die:
1: Skull
2: Both Down
3: Both Prone (both players are Placed Prone, who has Wrestle can choose not to be Placed Prone, Juggernaut cancels Wrestle on a Blitz, no AV roll, no turnover unless attacker dropped the ball)
4: Both Stand/Attacker Pushed (if attacker blitzed no effect, both players stand, if the blitzing attacker has Juggernaut, Both Stand is turned into a Push; if the attacker blocked they are pushed back by the defender, if the attacker has Stand Firm they are not pushed)
5: Push
6: Push
7: Push/Pow
8: Pow
40r- Passing on a D8. I don’t hate this. It’s fine. I don’t think it’s really needed though. Pa just needs to be valued less on player creation, and passing skills should be discounted. D8 passing is okay though. Just edged it in to red as I don’t think it’s needed and the problem you are addressing could be fixed in other ways. But it is okay
41r –D8 Blocking though is HUGE no. Also one of the worst changes in your rules. There is no need for this change. You already get up to 3 dice for Blocking. Blocking works perfectly already. This is unnecessary bloat and complexity. ______________________________________________________________________________________________
42- Injury Table (2D6)
2-8: Stunned
9-10: KO (Thick Skull turns KO into Stunned on 4+)
11+: CAS
42r- No. This makes the game far too soft. I’ve checked the probability too, and it is HUGE softening of the game. Because breaking armour is non linear probability and injury is, this will disproportionately buff the teams that are already the best in the game
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43- Casualty Table (D8 )
1-4: Badly Hurt
5: Seriously Hurt (MNG)
6: Seriously Injured (NI*)
7: Lasting Injury (-Stat)
8: Dead
When a player is injured, roll a D8.
*If a player has 1 or more NIs, roll as many extra D8 as the NIs and apply the highest roll.
For example, a player with 2 NIs would roll 3D8:
6, 2, 1 = 6 = Seriously Injured (NI)
Once in a match the Apothecary may roll a single D8 on the Casualty table and apply this result instead (if the player was Badly Hurt, Apothecary will heal them automatically). A Badly Hurt result rolled by the Apothecary heals the player (move them to the Reserve box).
In the example above, an Apothecary roll of 1-4 would fully heal the player, a 5 MNG, 6 NI, 7 - Stat, 8 Dead.
Apothecary's rerolled result may be used or not, at coach's discretion.
43r- Agreed. This is the same as the cas table in my rules |
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RDaneel
Joined: Feb 24, 2023
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| Posted:
Aug 13, 2025 - 18:33 |
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| Garion wrote: | Hi Matt,
So your house rules are below. Here is my feedback
......
Matt Dakka house rules
1, I suggest not to use Season Re-Draft but, if you want to use it, 10-game Season with budget 1300k.
1r, I agree in theory that Season Re-draft is fundamentally bad for the game in its current form. I think a better solution could be reached. I prefer on p..........
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[i]43r- Agreed. This is the same as the cas table in my rules |
Hey mate definitively you and Dakka win ex aequo the award for the longest post of the week here!
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To judge a man, one must at least know the secret of his thoughts, his misfortunes, his emotions, Balzac |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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| Posted:
Aug 13, 2025 - 18:42 |
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- The 10-game Season with 1300k Re-Draft budget rule is for people wanting to play with Season Re-Draft (probably people liking top tier 1 teams, as an aside).
I'd rather use a TV cap (1500-1400 range). I'd start at 1500 and, if too high, I would decrease it.
According to my own experience, until TV 1500 the game is quite balanced. 1500 would make teams such as Chaos, Nurgle and Khorne more playable and the lack of Re-Draft would allow to keep players for more games.
- About capping the Treasury at 200k: I think that Expensive Mistakes punish teams saving 100k to buy expensive positionals (thinking of Elves, but not only). Losing 10-30k when you have just 100k stored is not great, while teams storing until 299k are risking to lose the same amount. This difference is not balanced and, to quote you, let's face it, Expensive Mistakes may sound fancy, but it's rule bloat, absolutely unnecessary for the game, if not for rolling extra dice in the post-match phase for the sake of it. 200k is high enough to buy either 1-2 expensive positionals or a Deathroller or a Big Guy.
- About underdog and allowed gold to spent: the overdog team can't spend gold from its Treasury, the underdog team can spend up to the TV difference. Example: a 1500 TV team faces a 1400 TV team: the 1500 can't buy any Inducement with its Treasury gold, while the 1400 TV team can spend up to 100k on Inducements. So yes, you got the rule right.
- About TV cap set at 1500: 1500 is very far from the typical Res Tourney range and it allows to have 20-25 skills across the players. I find this far from making the teams cookie cutter. Currently (and I play a lot), finding teams above TV 1400 in the Box is a rare occurrence and often their players are legacy ones, before Re-Draft implementation. I do think that being able to play at 1500, rather than re-starting at 1350 every 15 games, would be way more fun and less cookie cutter than now, where every Amazon and Norse team look similar, with a pimped up Valk or Blitzer, a couple of developed Ulfs and Blockers, and the rest Linemen with a spam of underpriced G skills. That said, if a Commissioner found too limiting the 1500 TV cap, they could just increase it. Since each player can have max 3 skills/stat boosts and that the stat boots are capped in my ruleset, in theory the TV scaling should be less unbalanced.
- About the pitch dimensions: I increased the pitch dimensions in order to make 1TTD and TTM harder (and give players with MA 9 the possibility to have MA 10) and to promote a bit the passing over the running with the ball.
In second edition BB the Astrogranite pitch, by the way, had the same dimensions (but the End Zone was 2 squares by 15, in my pitch the End Zone is 1 square by 15, to keep risky staying in the End Zone waiting for a pass or failing a rush to score). Moreover, with that extra square, there would be a slight incentive to move the ball (taking risks) for the slower teams. I think, as already said above, that passing would be required more often (because the pitch is slighty bigger, the 2nd and 3rd rush is riskier, and because there is 1 rr per turn. Multi rr per turn makes running game too good compared to passing game, in the current ruleset.
About 1 rr per turn for tier 1 and 2 teams and multi rr for tier 3 teams-only:
Maybe is not a right way to buff tier 3 teams, but I think it's a step forward in the right direction. Currently, tier 3 teams are allowed to use multi rr and yet their win rate is not great. About rule bloat: honestly, I don't think it would be a massive rule bloat. It could be called "Tryhard rule" or "Enthusiasm and incompetence" in the tier 3 team roster. It's not that hard to remember that tier 3 teams can use multi rr. We have Star Players with a specific special rule each and we would be afraid of a rule stating that tier 3 can use multi rr? About TTM + multi rr: consider that with a bigger pitch and riskier rushes, and maybe a Kicker in the equation, TTM would still be hard enough. Harder than now, for sure, with a smaller pitch and easy 2+ rushes.
- About capping the stat boosts, it's green, ok.
MA 10 is allowed in my ruleset because the longer pitch makes up for the MA 10 (but rushes are riskier and there is a rr per turn, so a MA 10 Gutter Runner would score less easily than now. 1TTD would be still possible, but harder).
-Max 1 Star Player: as we know, some teams such as Underworld and Snotlings exploited the possibility of having more than 1 Star Player. I think (and this is my opinion) that a team should be made mostly by players developed by a coach, not hired from a Star Players' list.
Also, with more than 1 Star Player there is a greater chance to have nasty combos. With 1 Star Player allowed the combo factor decreases. Maybe some Mega-Star could be allowed again, if they were capped at 1 per team (but that's an extra topic).
About some Star Players breaking the fluff when playing for certain teams: I agree with you and I would fix that too, but that's an extra topic as well.
About anti-stalling: I'm not sure about it (and this is why I created the thread).
The tactical options might be reduced or they could be increased, if you consider a scenario where a team tries to win the game, kicks shallow (4 squares from the half pitch line, for example) and try to pressure the ball/cage around the ball. Important: consider that the pitch is not reduced by the imaginary line (so, the attacking players without the ball could stay behind the imaginary line).
Only the ball could not be carried back in order to stall, so there should still be enough room for some tactics. I might be wrong, but I'd like to test it.
About team suffering from attrition: my 2nd Half fillers should help a bit teams suffering from attrition. Maybe it would still be a draw, in case the team suffering from attrition decided to score fast. Currently it's often a draw by just going back and stalling. The result is the same, but the deep stalling to secure a tie looks to me more boring and less dynamic. You just create screens and wait, there is no opposition when you go back. Instead, if you have to actually get past the defence, you are taking risks and the game gets more interesting and dynamic to play and to watch. I repeat, I might be wrong, but it could be worth a test, if not just to try a different gameplay and approach to a drive.
- About stalling: there are 2 kinds of stalling, the dynamic one performed by taking risks and moving players and the static one. While I agree that dynamic stalling is a big part of the game and coach's skill, I don't think that the static stalling requires much skill, once that a bash team has removed some players and the remaining ones have no hope to attack the ball carrier, especially if surrounded/protected by guard. The rock thrown by the crown is supposed to make static stalling risky and keep the attention on the drive higher than now.
If people will stay 1 square away from touchdown range ok, at least they will be forced to take a risk to score in the last turn, if they do that.
As an aside, the thrown rock is not my only idea. Another idea could be a teleporting ball, moving the stalling ball carrier up to 3 squares away in a D8 random direction (D6 roll 1 = 3 squares;2-3 = 2 squares; 4-6 = 1 square). It would shake static stalling a bit off, without being gamebreaking.
The thrown rock is one idea. That said, I'd like to test it.
About fillers and injuries less affecting a League environment. The Niggling Injury could be changed. Currently, in my ruleset, each NI adds an extra D8 to the CAS roll. It could be changed like so: instead of rolling an extra D8, each NI could add a +1 to the D8 CAS roll.
In that case, only a D8 would be rolled, and with a +1 the Casualties would get more severe. With a NI the Death would be 25%.
-About random skills taken only by tier 1 players costing 40k. It's a rule made to weaken Amazons and Norse, which benefits greatly from rolling random G skills. It's tier 1 teams' indirect nerfing.
- About the blocking failure less likely: with 1 rr per turn it's fine. Moreover, many tier 2 teams such as Chaos, Nurgle and Khorne often struggle due to failing 1/9 blocks when lacking Block/Wrestle (they have no players with Block/Wrestle). By decreasing the blocking failure teams lacking Block/Wrestle become more playable.
- About my fouling rule: it's made to increase the correlation between ejection and spotting chance.
With my fouling rule, the higher the damage is, the greater the chance of being spotted gets. Currently the chance to be ejected for a Stunned is the same as for a Killed player. I don't like this, so I invented that rule.
Argue the call is allowed. I don't get the "rolls are the wrong way out" part you said, though.
- About Blizzard and my rush rule. Sorry, I didn't understand what you mean with the Blizzard part.
My rushes without Blizzard are: 2+, 3+, 4+ (with Sprint)
with Blizzard are: 3+, 4+, 5+ (with Sprint)
- About reducing the Stunty PA: yes, reducing the PA is a possibility, but that makes the Broken Arm Injury worse.
Anyway, I think we can consider this more like an "aesthetic profile" issue, not a major issue. I mean, I could be fine with -1 already included in the PA
- About allowing Sure Hands in the Agility skill list: the purpose is buffing Stunty teams by giving them the possibility to get Sure Hands as Primary skill.
Yes, I could have made a different skill list, that's true. Anyway, it would be a little buff to Stunty teams. Not OP, just to reduce the need of rrs for a trivial task such as ball pick up.
- About Mighty Blow triggered only by Pow: maybe it's too much, but I use to check the games I play and watch and actually Pow on 2d and 3d is not that unlikely. It would encourage maximizing 3d blocks whenever possible, which is not a bad thing, in my opinion. So, it could be too much as you say, but I'd like to test it first.
-About -1 ST to ball carrying player. ST 2 should not be hit at all. Even with ST 2 they can be powed quite easily.
Instead, the idea of giving -ST is aimed mainly to ST 3+ Blodge ball carriers. It would be easier to sack them with 1 rr per turn. Currently, yes, they don't lose -1 ST, but you can use multi rr to reach and blitz them. I don't think it would be terrible. Your objection is sensible, so I won't tell you it's wrong, just, I'd like to test it.
- About not considering the ball carrier's Tackle Zone stacking modifier: this idea is supposed to make cage slightly less safe and the ball carrier a bit easier to blitz. It's true that Elves would benefit from it, but on the other hand 1 rr per turn should keep the sequence balanced. Just would encourage more trying to sack, because the odds would be better than now.
- About my KO stacking +1: if you find confusing to remember the modifiers by using the miniature face down, face up and standing, you can just use a sheet of paper with numbered sections and place it in the KO box, or use numbered cardboard tokens. I find intuitive that a face down miniature requires a 4+, a face up one 3+, a standing one 2+. It's like when a player is Stunned or Prone on the pitch, the difficulty to remember is the same, but there are more players on the pitch than in the KO box. It should not be confusing. Anyway, the rule is good, it's just a matter of keeping track of the required recovery rolls.
- About my 2nd Half-11 players rule.
What the problem with fouling? You can foul every turn, but on average you won't destroy a team through fouling.
Banned players will be replaced, but fouled players too.
In case a coach fouls every turn, they risk to be outpositioned.
- Attrition favours the team that outblocks (skillfully or not, it's not a necessary condition) and/or sports more skills made to deal damage, such as Block, Mighty Blow, Frenzy, Tackle, Dirty Player. I already made the example of 2 Mummies with Mighty Blow, the Mighty Blows could be 3 after a couple of games. Throwing blocks on 3 players that the opponent must set up on the LOS doesn't require to be skillful.
Yesterday, as an aside, I outblocked with a ratio of 1.5 a Dwarf team with my Norse, yet I managed only a KO in the whole game. I skillfully outblocked my opponent, yet the removals didn't happen. There is no such tight correlation between number of blocks and damage dealt, the variance in a game is high. Often it's better to throw fewer blocks with Mighty Blow than many blocks without Mighty Blow.
- 11 players guaranted undermines what happened in 1st Half? And what is the difference between me and my opponent starting the first Half and getting a numbers advantage? A coin toss. Why the 2nd Half I play, if I lost the coin toss and had to kick, should be undermined by the coin toss? Consider it from the reverse perspective.
- About Dump-Off: currently Dump-Off is not fine.
I tried it and if the pass fails the blitzing player can just refrain from hitting the Dump-Off player and get the ball, moving in a totally different way. It doesn't make sense at all and makes Dump-Off bad, because it can't be used to lure a blitz to Dump-Off player.
What's the point of dumping-off if the ball scatters and gets picked up by the blitzing player?
With my rule at least you get the advantage of drawing the blitzing player as close as you want to the Dump-Off player.
The Dump-Off pass may fail or not, but the fact you can decide WHEN throwing it makes it better than the current version.
A way to reduce the issue of asking each square to use the skill could be starting asking at 3 squares of distance from the Dump-Off player, for example. Anyway, blitzing a Dump-Off player is not something happening each and every turn. It should not bog down too much the game.
- About Hit & Run: well, I can't disagree with you about removing it from the game, but, if we want to keep it, my rule prevents to gain a forward free square by blitzing with Hit & Run (which could be used to score a 1TTD).
-About Regeneration: in my rules a player successfully regenerating is not put in the Reserves box, because it doesn't make sense that a KO Mummy goes to the KO box, while a Killed-regenerating Mummy goes straight to the Reserves box. Since a Casualty is more severe than a KO, this should be represented by putting a Regeneration player in the KO box and taking some time to regenerate it. Your Igor +1 KO roll rule could be added to this rule, as I think of it.
- About my Pass rule and Wildy Inaccurate, to clarify:
if the Thrower is not marked by any opponent player, the Wildly Inaccurate D3 scatter takes place from the receiver square/targetted empty square.
If the Thrower is marked, the Wildy Inaccurate takes place from the Thrower's square (to represent the opponent player deflected the ball while it was being thrown).
This, at least in my mind, makes Wildly Inaccurate something logically acceptable.
- About Strip Ball: I don't think it's unnecessary.
It makes Strip Ball still useful when a Sure Hands player is blitzed. Currently, Strip Ball gets bloaty when you face Sure Hands. Also, makes sacking harder. What's the point of dodging into a cage if you don't have decent odds to sack the ball during a stalling? About checking the stats: it's not that hard: (ST+AG) of attacking and defending player + D6 roll. It's not something happening each and every turn. It would not slow down the game.
- About A.Coaches and Cheerleaders: I wanted to boost the impact of them on the game. The 0-2 cap for both A.Coaches and Cheerleaders is to have max 8 activable players in a Blitz! event.
- About High Kick nerf and Kick boost: the changes are not rule bloat for the sake of it. They are supposed to make Blitz! a bit better, to make tactical kicking better (there is a huge difference if your MA 6 Runner can cover all the pitch with High Kick or just move 3 squares).
-1 to catch the ball if kicked with Kick boosts the skill.
1TTD and TTM get a bit harder as well. Too often I kick deep, just to see High Kick event happening and a badly positioned player reaching the ball. It may sound clunky, but actually it's not. Instead of moving all the pitch, a player has a On the Ball free move, which can stacks with On the Ball skill. Nothing super clunky to remember.
- About Prayers to Nuffle: well, I just tried to make the current ones more logical but I agree with you, they could be deleted from the game. I would not miss them. They seem adding random stuff for the sake of it. To say with other words: the amount of Prayers you have to remember don't have a big effect on the game, their "gameplay density" is poor.
- About the SPPS gained:
Gaining 1 SPP would help teams such as Chaos, Nurgle, Lizardmen, Necromantic (think of Wraiths and Golems) who are hard to skill up.
About the Dwarf Guard spam: that could be an issue, but currently I don't see Dwarf teams dominating the meta.
Without a good ball carrier yes, they can spam Guard, but won't score much. The removals are nerfed in my ruleset, they would block a lot but would not destroy teams.
About Legends: in my ruleset there are players with maximum 3 skills/level ups. Legends don't exist.
The same players could hog SPPs, true, but they would not be the super stat freaks we are used to. A Dwarf Runner would have max MA 7, AG 2+ and a skill or another stat.
I don't think Dwarfs would break the game. The more even SPPs spreading would benefit many teams. Overall (considering all the teams, I mean) I think it would have more pros than cons.
- D8 Passing would help to differentiate better the players and we could even have Zombies with PA 8+ actually able to throw that last ditch pass to score.
It doesn't make sense to me that a DE Assassin has PA 5+ like a Troll or that an Orc Blitzer has the same PA as an Elf.
-D8 blocking reduces the need to have Block/Wrestle/Tackle to block for teams lacking it (Chaos, Nurgle, Lizardmen, Khorne) and helps them to deal with teams with Blodge, like Amazons or with Block spam, like Dwarfs and Norse.
With either Both Prone or Pow result a Blodge ball carrier can be placed down, with the former, or knocked down by the latter, even by a rookie player with no Wrestle and Tackle.
To do the same, a Pow (only 1 result) is required on a D6 block dice, while on a D8 there are 2 results.
It's 1/6 instead of 1/4.
Moreover, with two D6 block dice there is a 1/9 turnover chance when blocking without skills, with two D8 1/16.
Game 1 Chaos vs Amazons would be more playable than now.
About the Injury table: ok, we disagree about that.
If you think that nerfing the Injuries would help Orcs and Dwarfs, I think the opposite. I think it would help AV 8+ or less teams.
It's easier to defend against Orcs and Dwarfs for Elves, for example, if fewer Elves are removed.
The other way around, Elves removing Orcs or Dwarfs, is not likely now, so the difference in Injury table with fewer removals would help Elves more than Orcs and Dwarfs.
I might be wrong, it should be tested. |
Last edited by MattDakka on Aug 13, 2025; edited 9 times in total |
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Chingis
Joined: Jul 09, 2007
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| Posted:
Aug 13, 2025 - 19:12 |
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| Garion wrote: | | 24 - Ball: since a hand must be used to hold it, it gives -1 ST to the player carrying it (to a minimum of ST 1). Players with either Extra Arms, Monstrous Mouth, Safe Pair Of Hands or Sure Hands ignore the -1 ST modifier. Moreover, the ball carrying player's Tackle Zone doesn't give a -1 to dodge when an opponent player dodges/leaps into it because the ball carrier is busy protecting the ball. |
Just to use this one as an example of a kind of meta-point, I think it's necessary to remember that Blood Bowl is a board game, and a lighthearted one at that.
The best game design involves individually minimalistic rules (ones that the players can succintly intuit and paraphrase themselves) that synergise to form a clever set of interactions between themselves. A cornucopia of subclauses and exceptions and special cases is not elegant design.
My feeling is that some of the rules above look like they might be fine as concepts for computer game code, but don't look like they've been designed for a board game. Whether or not you like the effect that any potential rule change would have, it's equally important that it be elegant in game design terms. |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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| Posted:
Aug 13, 2025 - 19:19 |
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If we want to make cage less safe and ball sacking easier, we have to make some changes.
With -3 to dodge and 2 Guards protecting a ball carrier is very hard to sack the ball.
If you run with the ball carrier unprotected then -1 ST is a problem, if you protect them with a screen/cage/Guards -1 ST is not that big. The idea is that you should protect your ball carrier to make up for 1 -ST (would make freaks with Blodge weaker than now).
Those rules don't seem too hard to remember to me for a tabletop game. I played other GW campaign games with more rules than these ones (namely Necromunda, Warhammer Quest, Gorkamorka). |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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| Posted:
Aug 13, 2025 - 19:40 |
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| Chingis wrote: | | Garion wrote: | | 24 - Ball: since a hand must be used to hold it, it gives -1 ST to the player carrying it (to a minimum of ST 1). Players with either Extra Arms, Monstrous Mouth, Safe Pair Of Hands or Sure Hands ignore the -1 ST modifier. Moreover, the ball carrying player's Tackle Zone doesn't give a -1 to dodge when an opponent player dodges/leaps into it because the ball carrier is busy protecting the ball. |
Just to use this one as an example of a kind of meta-point, I think it's necessary to remember that Blood Bowl is a board game, and a lighthearted one at that.
The best game design involves individually minimalistic rules (ones that the players can succintly intuit and paraphrase themselves) that synergise to form a clever set of interactions between themselves. A cornucopia of subclauses and exceptions and special cases is not elegant design.
My feeling is that some of the rules above look like they might be fine as concepts for computer game code, but don't look like they've been designed for a board game. Whether or not you like the effect that any potential rule change would have, it's equally important that it be elegant in game design terms. |
This ^
| MattDakka wrote: | | If we want to make cage less safe and ball sacking easier, |
But who wants that? |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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| Posted:
Aug 13, 2025 - 19:44 |
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I want it. It would make for less boring games with ball carriers safely sleeping in a cage near the End Zone. |
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