ryanfitz
Joined: Mar 24, 2009
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Mar 23, 2012 - 04:56 |
 
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why would stunty league have to have the same rules as full grown players. I like the idea that weapons are allowed on the 'stunty circut' makes it sound like a fun place to be a spectator. Are you really going to complain and pixel hug stunties? Isn't a good stunty game one where in the next match both teams need 11 journeymen? |
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Sigmar1
Joined: Aug 13, 2008
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Mar 23, 2012 - 05:42 |
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From my perspective its not a matter of pixel-hugging so much as balance. The secret weapons are so good they're designed to only be around a short while. When a chaos team obliterates and elf team, the elves can still out-ball them to a victory. In stunty (IMO, I wasn't around when it was developed) it seems balance is mostly maintained thru teams being able to cas each other at a more or less equal rate.
The secret weapons are exceedingly good at that, on purpose. When the ref doesn't ever eject them, those teams are far more deadly than most of the others and therefore have a HUGE advantage.
Its no coincidence practically everybody and their brother is playing a Cfling, Cheater, Snot or Slave team right now. |
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Nelphine
Joined: Apr 01, 2011
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Mar 23, 2012 - 05:50 |
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(Although I don't find the same issue with the cheaters; they completely rely on their secret weapons, and I would expect them to have the lowest number of secret weapons on the team; if for example secret weapons were a weapon roll as in LRB4, I would expect cheaters to have the best numbers by far of any team. This is to the point that I will play cheaters right now, even without secret weapon rules, and I don't consider them particularly overpowered. Even cflings aren't too bad, as long as you don't give them 100k for bribes, as they have so many people who want to be the blitzer that the saws end up not doing a lot for half the game anyway.) |
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MisterFurious
Joined: Aug 11, 2010
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Mar 23, 2012 - 06:16 |
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| Nelphine wrote: | | This is to the point that I will play cheaters right now, even without secret weapon rules, and I don't consider them particularly overpowered. |
Are you kidding? They're the most broken team right now. They have two ST 6 guys with 3 AG and no drawback whatsoever. They also have two chainsaws and two dirty players on top of that. Every time I ever played them, I got shredded and finally decided to just avoid them altogether until Ball & Chain and Secret Weapon got put in.
I don't mind Chaos Halflings so much as they're only AV 6. Even with two chainsaws, they can get the crap beat out of them. I agree that Snotlings are too good right now, though. |
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Nelphine
Joined: Apr 01, 2011
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Mar 23, 2012 - 07:02 |
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2 dirty players + 2 saws = too many people that are only good at fouling. 2 saws = a good number of blitzers, so, as with cflings, probably too good. 2 str 6 agi 3 ball carriers - good, but if you ever get a big guy on them, they're pretty sunk, as they don't have any of the bashing skills your big guys do, so any 2d block against them with mighty blow has a mighty good chance of taking them off the pitch, unlike most big guys; and if you have your own saws (or stabs!) that also takes them off pretty quick, and agi 3 isn't reliable enough to dodge well (especially with prolific diving tackle around). Don't get me wrong, they're strong, but compared to the other 3 (cflings are better, snots and skryre are definitely better), I'm just not worried about cheaters that much. And I do think B&C should have no hands until B&C is implemented, I just don't think it's particularly insurmountable.
Incidentally, I think it's interesting that everyone seems to have that one team they hate (cflings, cheaters, skryre, or snots). |
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On1
Joined: Jul 12, 2004
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Mar 23, 2012 - 08:55 |
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WhatBall
Joined: Aug 21, 2008
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Mar 23, 2012 - 15:01 |
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| Nelphine wrote: | | (Although I don't find the same issue with the cheaters; they completely rely on their secret weapons...) |
Up for a game? 
The single loss we played 300K down (with only one B&C) to Chaos Flings (another brutal team with no SW) and only lost on some bad dice. |
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Hitonagashi
Joined: Apr 09, 2006
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Mar 23, 2012 - 15:17 |
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Just pointing out, they actually play for significantly longer now, as Stunty has been removed from the Cheater's weapons.
SW cancels Stunty on dodges, so I'd guess it's not there to stop Chainsaws dodging everywhere. When SW is implemented, it might be that stunty comes back on the Saw and Fanatic (a la the Goblin team) |
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Sp00keh
Joined: Dec 06, 2011
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Mar 23, 2012 - 15:21 |
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I'd take a lot of those players, at that cost, on a normal race team. particularly fanatic and kicker |
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Ehlers
Joined: Jun 26, 2006
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Mar 23, 2012 - 17:18 |
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| Sp00keh wrote: | | I'd take a lot of those players, at that cost, on a normal race team. particularly fanatic and kicker |
Of cause you would do that 
Fanatic 4 6 3 7 Ball & Chain 50k
and
Goblin 6 2 3 7 Dodge, Right Stuff, Stunty 40k
That is one hell of a cheap str 6 guy compared to a goblin |
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Nelphine
Joined: Apr 01, 2011
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Mar 23, 2012 - 18:38 |
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Whatball, if I wasn't giving you 500k inducements, I would totally play your cheaters. But 500k inducements = wizard + 3 bribes, so no, since bribes are simply too awesome for words when you have saws. So come back and talk to me when you reach 1650+ TV. |
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PainState
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
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Mar 23, 2012 - 18:39 |
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Iam still waiting for the goblin coach in box/ranked to announce the first ever legend chainsaw loonie.
I cant wait. |
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MisterFurious
Joined: Aug 11, 2010
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Mar 23, 2012 - 18:52 |
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| Nelphine wrote: | 2 dirty players + 2 saws = too many people that are only good at fouling. 2 saws = a good number of blitzers, so, as with cflings, probably too good. 2 str 6 agi 3 ball carriers - good, but if you ever get a big guy on them, they're pretty sunk, as they don't have any of the bashing skills your big guys do, so any 2d block against them with mighty blow has a mighty good chance of taking them off the pitch, unlike most big guys; and if you have your own saws (or stabs!) that also takes them off pretty quick, and agi 3 isn't reliable enough to dodge well (especially with prolific diving tackle around). Don't get me wrong, they're strong, but compared to the other 3 (cflings are better, snots and skryre are definitely better), I'm just not worried about cheaters that much. And I do think B&C should have no hands until B&C is implemented, I just don't think it's particularly insurmountable.
Incidentally, I think it's interesting that everyone seems to have that one team they hate (cflings, cheaters, skryre, or snots). |
Most Big Guys have 5 ST. Fanatics have 6. Getting 2 die blocks on them isn't easy even with Big Guys and quite a few teams don't even have any Big Guys. Also, 3 AG means they can dodge away and even carry the ball. Is it reliable? No, but what in Blood Bowl is? Factor in the fact that these 6 ST 3 AG guys have no nega-trait whatsoever. No Really Stupid. No Bonehead. Nothing. That's huge. They can move wherever you want them (away from their opponent's Big Guys for instance) and can blitz reliably (usually for a 3 die block). On top of that, they're 6 ST ball carriers in a league were the average ST is 2. They're crazy good players right now and they're on a team that has two chainsaws that don't get sent off, either. |
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JackRose
Joined: Nov 18, 2010
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Mar 23, 2012 - 19:05 |
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| Quote: | I haven't been working on fixing stuff much because there will be that many changes to the server that I expect lots of them to vanish in the process with completely new ones appearing. Only testing will show. And there have been no new features because I REALLY needed to have this cleanup before being able to add new and rather complex skills such as Bombardier or Pass Block (which both have their own special turn sequence).
So I need to ask you for a little more patience, sorry. |
I read this as, "I'm working on a major re-coding project of the client. Don't expect implementation of new skills/secret weapon/anything stunty any time soon." I'd love to be wrong about this, but I don't think I am. And frankly, that is the right attitude to have. Stunty is a great league, but it's not nearly as important as regular Bloodbowl, and that's where Kalimar is rightly concentrating his energies.
If we want to fix balance in stunty, we need to do it without implementation changes in the client. I'm not even sure how that works, but if Shadow can create new teams for the stunty league, it stands to reason he can re-balance the old ones to work with the client that we have. |
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polardragon
Joined: May 07, 2011
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Mar 23, 2012 - 20:19 |
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A couple quick fixes for stunty that require no admin nor developer intervention:
1) Caveat Emptor.
Take a good look at that other team before you accept a game.
2) Only play mirror matches.
At least then its equally broken for both sides.
3) Build another team and have at you.
Maybe there is an even more broken roster you can clobber them with.
Yeah Whatball, I am lookin' at *you*. I'll see your 2 Fanatics and raise you a Deathroller and a pair of Mechavermin. |
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