| Poll |
| Oh God, these guys are so awful because . . . |
| . . . they don't bring anything new to the SL. |
|
4% |
[ 2 ] |
| . . . the fluff is wrongheaded. |
|
13% |
[ 6 ] |
| . . . they are too weak. |
|
37% |
[ 16 ] |
| . . . they are too strong. |
|
4% |
[ 2 ] |
| mmmn, this porridge is juuuust right. |
|
39% |
[ 17 ] |
|
| Total Votes : 43 |
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The_Mighty_Ren
Joined: Oct 12, 2004
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 Posted:
Aug 29, 2005 - 13:58 |
 
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EDITS:
-Increased PG cost to 150k and added general access. Didn't give him FA because whilst he's scary, he's also a giant ball of swirling air full of chairs and lamps and other household objects, not a ghosty thing.
-Stombies get Av7, not Mv3 yet, still 30k if only for their G access (I did want them to have to GFI to stand, I was aiming for every good thing in the team being made somewhat unreliable).
-RR stay 60k for now.
-Demoniacs get Ma5, not av7 as they as the only non-regen av6 in the team, and this represents the exhaustion of possession (and the fact that they are just uncontrollable flings).
-Spectres stay seperate (for now) because I like the fragile, floaty things. There may be too many ghosts.
-The simpler Fluff alternate is that, just as failed doctors become dentists, failed necromancers become. . .
EDITS 2:
-Stombies dropped to 20k
-G access for demoniacs, G removed for Poltergeist
So . . .
Team is a lot tougher than in its original inception and prices have been tweaked. We'll see how this looks (or if anyone notices), then maybe set about some play testing.
Are they too tough now? Should there only be 2 ghosts? Are the stombies/rerolls/demoniacs too cheap? Should the demoniacs get Big Guy? Or get -1Av? Should Poltergeists move less?
Basic starting roster would be:
Poltergeist
2 demoniac
4 ghosts
2 spectre
7 stombies
2RR
FF9
(or lose 2 stombies and 2FF for an etra RR)
EDITS 3:
-RR increased to 70k
Basic team sheet is now as above but with FF7 or ones less stombie for 2 RR, 3 less stombie and FF6 for 3 RR, or FF8, 1 less stombie and 1 less ghost for 3RR. |
_________________
Every time you foul me, a kitten dies.
Join the League of Heroic Failure - lose with dignity. |
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hunter
Joined: Aug 11, 2003
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| Posted:
Aug 29, 2005 - 18:24 |
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Well, the fluff needs a little work IMO, but that is not of a main concern really.
As far as the team is concerned, starting off with 6 FA on the field might be a bit much. I'm not even sure why (based on the fluff) Ghosts and Spectres have it. Is it because they are supposed to be scary? In a universe already containing Mummies, Zombies, Skeletons, Werewolves, etc., I doubt that Ghosts and Spectres would be terribly unexpected.  It would make more sense to me to have FA on the base Stombies only, and increase their price to 30k. This would also encourage more variability in team construction. You might even want to consider upping the MV to 3, adding Dodge, and increasing the price further. Of course, this would focus the team more on the base players, which would be a change from your current focus on the positional players. I only offer this suggestion because the team is named after the base players, and as it stands you only need to hire a couple for line fodder and nothing else.
Remove 10k from the cost of ghosts and spectres if you remove FA from them.
If the Demoniacs are so uncontrollable, you should probably give them the Big Guy trait. This does not mean that they are Big Guys in this case, only that they are so out of control that they cannot use rerolls. Again, reduce price by 10k.
I think the Poltergeist is too expensive, or needs something to make it worth so much. I gave it AG3, to increase its usefulness and the power of the team. He should also have Regenerate.
Here's my take:
0-1 Poltergeist 150k
M4 S5 A3 AV10 S, P – Big Guy, Dissipate (Bone Head), TTM, Pass, Mighty Blow, Regenerate
0-2 Demoniac 40k
M5 S2 A1 AV6 S, G – Wild animal, Stunty, Frenzy, Dauntless, Big Guy
0-4 Ghosts 50k
M6 S2 A3 AV6 A – Stunty, Dodge, Regenerate
0-2 Spectre 70k
M7 S1 A4 AV7 A – Dodge, Ethereal (Leap), Dissipate (Bone Head)
0-16 Stombies 30k
M2 S2 A2 AV7 G – Stunty, Right Stuff, Regenerate, Foul Appearance
RR -- 70k
Apoth -- No
Wizard -- No, but can raise 1 Stombie from dead
Regards,
~hunter |
_________________
Stunty Leeg Central - For ALL your Stunty needs!  |
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Trekamp
Joined: Dec 15, 2003
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| Posted:
Aug 29, 2005 - 18:50 |
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| Quote: |
0-1 Poltergeist 150k
Big, invisible and dangerous
|
How do you know it is dangerous when it is invisible? |
_________________
-Boredom is not a burden anyone should bear- |
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freak_in_a_frock
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Aug 29, 2005 - 18:51 |
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should spectre players start with 2 agility skills? this means that there are only 6 skills to pick from meaning that they have no choice on the last roll, assuming that all rolls are normal. Or maybe now that big guys get auto doubles, stunties will too. Other than they look the most promising new roster for a long time. |
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Thierry
Joined: Dec 09, 2003
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| Posted:
Aug 29, 2005 - 19:44 |
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well, a bit worried about having to face 6 foul appearence players and several stombie's turtles. 
Ghosts shouldn't get foul appearance to my opinion and stombies should get 3 or even 4 mvt. Price would have to be changed then.
Lowering spectre's mvt to 6 & giving them stunty (as being ethereal) would be great but then maybe ag4 would be too high.
So i would suggest to reduce agility to 3 and give them strength 2.Bone head should also be cancelled for them and if you want a really spicie spectre try side step.Maybe keeping access to Physical skill will keep them in line with the team spirit. 
But as long as you keep the possibility to get 6 foul appearance in the pitch and having also ag4 players in your own team, i'm afraid that games will not be really balanced ones.  |
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The_Mighty_Ren
Joined: Oct 12, 2004
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| Posted:
Aug 29, 2005 - 23:21 |
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Thanks for the bundle of more feedback
Fluff reasons for FA for Ghosts/Spectres was that whilst many things look terrifying, ghosts by their nature are terrifying - not quite corporeal and able to give you a chill if they get near you - couple with the idea of the 2+ to hit (it's harder to hit something if it's not quite there). But point taken and it's not really important anyway, so the FA is gone.
FA has not been added to the Stombies, even though I quite like it, to avoid the potential for opponent game disruption on a massive scale.
Fluffwise, the Demoniacs probably should have Big Guy (as I mentioned earlier I think), but ATM a full roster team will be making 5 2+ (if they always blitz/block with the demoniacs, not just move) negatrait rolls per turn, and I figured that it would be a good way to burn RR. I am, however, certainly open to returning the Big Guy trait. The other weakening option would be to drop them to Av5 – they would be exhausted pretty quick.
The +Ag for the Poltergeist worries me. I wanted to create a Big Guy whose focus wasn't destructive, and went for a pass-based BG, but with Ag3 and P access he's (Bonehead and lack of RR aside) almost as good a passer as any non-elf - certainly the best passer in Stunty and able to use the full range to boot. He could get Ag 3 but the spectres would have to go.
The fluff options are either or both of Regenerate and Tentacles (representing how hard it is to get away from the malevolent thing).
I hoped that in the (perhaps unlikely) event that a spectre does get to their final roll it would be auto-doubles, but if not they'd lose dodge. They have now, however, lost dodge anyway. They may need it back (it may make them too fragile without it).
Realistically, I always thought that the ghosts would have to be reduced and/or combined with the spectres at some point (or killed off and the stombies made slightly more useful), if only to force more than a minimum of 2 stombies on the team. The ghosts are the only reliable players this team has. At the moment they have not been changed, but my main wonder for the future would be to turn the stombies to Ma3 30k and lose the ghosts completely.
The temporary compromise would be to reduce the team to 2 ghosts.
Any thoughts on the above would be much appreciated.
Ren
and-
| Trekamp wrote: | | Quote: |
0-1 Poltergeist 150k
Big, invisible and dangerous
|
How do you know it is dangerous when it is invisible? |
Because it's a giant ball of air that picks up whatever is nearest (chairs, benches, rocks) like a malevolent tornado,  |
_________________
Every time you foul me, a kitten dies.
Join the League of Heroic Failure - lose with dignity. |
|
The_Mighty_Ren
Joined: Oct 12, 2004
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| Posted:
Aug 31, 2005 - 17:07 |
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Following feedback and more low-level playtesting:
The Stombie Team:
0-1 Poltergeist 140k
Big, invisible and dangerous, a Poltergeist can hurl a foe, friend or football with deadly effect. Prone to temporary vanishings, difficult to keep earthbound
M4 S5 A2 AV10 S, P – Big Guy, Dissipate (bonehead), TTM, Pass, Mighty Blow, Regenerate.
0-2 Demoniac 40k
Halflings possessed by demonic spirits. Uncontrollable and angry.
M5 S2 A1 AV6 S, G – Wild animal, Stunty, Frenzy, Dauntless, Big Guy.
0-2 Ghosts 50k
The spirits of former halflings, kept earthbound by the Halfomancer.
M6 S2 A3 AV6 A – Stunty, Dodge, Regenerate
0-2 Spectre 60k
The spirits of former elf-sized players, kept earthbound (with some difficulty) by the halfomancer.
M7 S1 A4 AV7 A – Ethereal (Leap), Dissipate (bonehead).
0-16 Stombies 30k
Resurrected stunties and awful BB players.
M2 S2 A2 AV7 G – Stunty, Right Stuff, Regenerate, Low Centre of Gravity (Jump Up)
RR ~ 70k
Apoth ~ No.
Wizards ~ No. Halfomancer can raise one opposing dead Stunty as a Stombie.
Jump Up represents (a) the closeness of the stombie to the floor and (b) the pathetic relentlessness of the tiny undead. Rather than some fantastical agility skills.
Some Options
-return dodge to Spectre or make cheaper
-give Poltergeist more skills/adjust cost
-no ghosts
-Av6 for Stombies
-Ma1 for Stombies (hah) |
_________________
Every time you foul me, a kitten dies.
Join the League of Heroic Failure - lose with dignity. |
|
Telcontar
Joined: Nov 12, 2004
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| Posted:
Aug 31, 2005 - 17:46 |
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I like them and the Fluff too..
only problem, in my opinion, is to compare the Stombies with other Stunties. They have G access and gain Block and Tackle which could make them very powerful despite their low movement |
_________________
Who is General Failure and why is he reading my hard disk? |
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The_Mighty_Ren
Joined: Oct 12, 2004
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| Posted:
Aug 31, 2005 - 17:53 |
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Yeh, I'm trying to balance out their G access by making them almost completely useless.
Ma1 and/or Ag1 and/or Av6 is still very much a possibility as they get playtested. As is losing Jump Up again. |
_________________
Every time you foul me, a kitten dies.
Join the League of Heroic Failure - lose with dignity. |
|
celas
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Aug 31, 2005 - 18:01 |
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Not sure about the fluff myself....I have not played Warhammer Roleplay or Fantasy Battle in a while but are there really anything close to halfomancer's in this universe? This is a major sticking point for fluff as the entire team is really built around the idea that there is a halfomancer.
I think that as a stunty team, they do not look that bad. It will take quite a while to get a first skill on the stombie but once they have block or tackle they will become tough. Not sure if a change in warranted but I see the other players with lower AVs and generally carrying the ball or in the action more = they will die more and stombies will hang around forever. Maybe that's the point; just an observation that in the long run they will still be slow, but pretty deadly.
Regarding the Demoniac: Not sure why something that is a combination of Wild Animal and Halfing would be skilled enough to use General Skills. Str skills only seem more appropriate here and maybe Agility too, to represent the agile (yet bloated) body of a fling enhanced by Demon strength.
Keep up with the playtesting. I think that is the best way to see if a team is a competitive fit. Also, perhaps someone can suggest a method for testing teams at different TR/TS for new proposals (i.e., spps and niggle generator) so that we can see how well a team performs at medium and high levels (it's simple enough to pull existing rosters from developed teams). |
_________________
Northern Wastes League |
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The_Mighty_Ren
Joined: Oct 12, 2004
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| Posted:
Aug 31, 2005 - 19:19 |
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The fluff is (loosely) based on a half-remembered (and, quite possibly, half-imagined) WFB novel (or collection of short stories). One bit featured a halfling private eye called filthy harald (or some other dirty harry joke-name). In one of the stories featuring Filthy Harald (I think he appeared in 2 seperate books) he ended up investigating someone who resurrected crap zombies - either a halfing or a pint-sized human (possibly even a dwarf).
I wrote based around that, then made it sillier and more full of childish jokes to amuse myself.
I agree that the fluff-based logic of 'G' skills on the demoniac is odd at best, 'A' probably makes (slightly) more sense. He certainly needs something more than S if only for balance (otherwise, in the unlikely event he'll live beyond his first skill - guard - he's forced to start taking break tackle and multiple block, which is, i suppose, at least funny). The G was also given because the Poltergeist doesn't have it, and I wanted to give the demoniacs a chance against other big guys.
The stombies (players not team) are meant to be slow starters with some potential. I was hoping their relative durability might balance the fact that Spectres and Demoniacs should be dying pretty regularly. As you rightly pointed out, it'll take some serious playtesting to determine whether they're pitched at the right level, or whether they'll end up too tough.
Thank-you. |
_________________
Every time you foul me, a kitten dies.
Join the League of Heroic Failure - lose with dignity. |
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Dreamsplitter
Joined: Dec 01, 2004
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| Posted:
Aug 31, 2005 - 22:31 |
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why not combine spectres and ghosts to 0-4 7 2 3 7 Stunty, Dodge, Leap 70k A |
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The_Mighty_Ren
Joined: Oct 12, 2004
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| Posted:
Sep 13, 2005 - 23:39 |
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Following more feedback and more low-level playtesting:
The Stombie Team:
0-1 Poltergeist 150k
Big, invisible and dangerous, a Poltergeist can hurl a foe, friend or football with deadly effect. Prone to temporary vanishings, difficult to keep earthbound
M4 S5 A2 AV10 S, G, P – Big Guy, Dissipate (bonehead), TTM, Pass, Mighty Blow, Regenerate.
0-2 Demoniac 40k
Halflings possessed by demonic spirits. Uncontrollable and angry.
M5 S2 A1 AV6 S, A – Wild animal, Stunty, Frenzy, Dauntless, Big Guy.
0-4 Spectre 60k
The spirits of former stunty players, kept earthbound by the halfomancer.
M7 S2 A3 AV7 A – Ethereal (Leap), Stunty.
0-16 Stombies 30k
Resurrected stunties and awful BB players.
M2 S2 A2 AV6 G – Stunty, Right Stuff, Regenerate, Low centre of gravity (Jump Up)
RR ~ 70k
Apoth ~ No.
Wizards ~ No. Halfomancer can raise one opposing dead Stunty as a Stombie.
Jump Up represents (a) the closeness of the stombie to the floor and (b) the pathetic relentlessness of the tiny undead. Rather than some fantastical agility skills.
Options
-Ma1 for stombies
-dodge for spectres
-Ma3 no jump up for stombies |
_________________
Every time you foul me, a kitten dies.
Join the League of Heroic Failure - lose with dignity.
Last edited by The_Mighty_Ren on %b %15, %2005 - %14:%Sep; edited 1 time in total |
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Skrofler
Joined: Aug 16, 2005
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| Posted:
Sep 14, 2005 - 13:55 |
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I still say it's crazy (in a bad way) to have an AV 6 stunty with no redeeming features (such as apo., dodge or regen.). |
_________________
Available to play (server time);
Mondays, 20:00-0:00
Tuesdays, 20:00-0:00
Wednesdays, 20:00-0:00
Thursdays, 22:00-0:00
Fridays, preferably not
Weekends, generally daytime 8:00-17:00 |
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OverDose
Joined: Apr 07, 2005
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| Posted:
Sep 15, 2005 - 14:46 |
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Spectre M6 S2 A3 AV7 A – Leap, Stunty Cost 60K
Goblin M6 S2 A3 AV7 A - Dodge, Stunty Cost 40K
Spectres suck ass in comparison to goblins.
Poltergeist is overpowered (MA 4 ST 5 AG 2 AV 10 bonehead pass WTF?)
Demoniacs should be useful: therefore, change A to G, AV 6 to AV 7 no big guy MA 6 and cost to something like 70 k
Spectres should have MA7 S2 A3 AV7 A - Dodge, leap, stunty, regen and cost 70 k
Stombies should have MA 4 no JU. that gen access is kinda dumb. Should change it to A.
This way you're team hasn't got the potential to field 5+ block guys with TR 140 or such. |
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