| Poll |
| 1st. skill double for a thrall |
| take guard... |
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72% |
[ 47 ] |
| take sneaky git... |
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18% |
[ 12 ] |
| take something else... (comment please) |
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9% |
[ 6 ] |
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| Total Votes : 65 |
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Araushnar
Joined: Jul 17, 2007
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 Posted:
Aug 07, 2010 - 13:45 |
 
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Hello,
i recently started a vamp team and rolled my first double for a thrall. I have very limited experience with the new ruleset (only played 9 games sofar)and need some suggestion for that skill choice.
I tend between guard and sneaky git.
Guard is always a good choice and you can never have enough guardians but what is with sneaky gits? Is it worth a double for a thrall?
Any suggestions are welcome.
Regards
A. |
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Lakrillo
Joined: Sep 12, 2007
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| Posted:
Aug 07, 2010 - 13:47 |
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I would say guard or dodge... but on the other hand i took sneaky git for my first double in my vamp-team.
Haven't had that much use of it yet, guard would probably have been the better choise. |
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JimmyFantastic
Joined: Feb 06, 2007
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| Posted:
Aug 07, 2010 - 13:48 |
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Sneaky Git is a terrible double, you should be fouling with enough assists that a double 3 breaks armour, so it is only stopping you getting sent off 1/18 times. |
_________________
Pull down the veil - actively bad for the hobby! |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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| Posted:
Aug 07, 2010 - 14:24 |
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I voted for sneaky git by a missclick so discount one vote, guard is the way forward. Hypno the cage open move your guard player in blitz the ball carrier and the ball is free, good times  |
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HLY
Joined: Nov 03, 2009
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| Posted:
Aug 07, 2010 - 15:37 |
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definatly guard, it's a far more usefull skill than sneaky git becuase, as was said, you should have enough assists too break armour most of the time anyway, so sneaky git wouldn't help. |
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DukeTyrion
Joined: Feb 18, 2004
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| Posted:
Aug 07, 2010 - 16:07 |
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shadow46x2
Joined: Nov 22, 2003
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| Posted:
Aug 07, 2010 - 16:23 |
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moved to the appropriate forum -> LRB5 |
_________________
| origami wrote: | | There is no god but Nuffle, and Shadow is his prophet. |
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Carnis
Joined: Feb 03, 2009
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| Posted:
Aug 07, 2010 - 17:21 |
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| jimmyfantastic wrote: | | Sneaky Git is a terrible double, you should be fouling with enough assists that a double 3 breaks armour, so it is only stopping you getting sent off 1/18 times. |
Actually, I did the numbers 2 years ago when LRB6 beta came out.
Sneaky git is not a horrible pick at all, but to take sneaky git to get DP later is a horrible strategy.
Take guard or dodge. Personally I prefer guard, then block him up later. Then wrestle up the non-double thralls.
What the spamming of numbers below tells us is, that of the skills DP & Sneaky.. DP is the more important one. But if you have both, your optimal opponent armor is 6, not 1. So you need to reduce opponents armor to 6, then foul. This way your foul will go through the armor 25/36 times and cause you to be sent off 8/36 times. Your opponent will be knocked or worse 2.08 times more often, than you will be ejected. At av6 (optimal target) your chance to cause KO or worse is 39%, your chance to cause a casualty is 18% and your chance to get ejected is 18,5%. If you got even one bribe you will almost certainly cause more casualties fouling this way, than get players sent off the pitch. Even without a bribe, you will likely break even, but win cause you cause more KOs than your opponent sends your foulers off.
If you roll double-3s you choose not to use dirty player and stay on the pitch. The 2nd local maximum for Sn/Dp is at AV2, where rolling double 1's you are at better odds than DP alone.
The other benefit of sneaky git is the target player will always be marked, or at least stunned.. So the catastrophe of your fouler being sent off and your target being unharmed is always avoided.
For those interested in the statistics:
| LRB6 fouling wrote: |
When optimally fouling with no skill, sneaky git, dirty player or sneaky git+dirty player. AV=the armor of the opponent after adding assists. The numbers = chance of said end event (ejection, opponent getting knocked out, opponent becoming a casualty)
abs chance ejected
Av no skill sneaky dirty dirty+sneaky
10 0,1782 0,0370 0,1898 0,0462
09 0,1898 0,0740 0,2052 0,0925
08 0,2052 0,0925 0,2245 0,1111
07 0,2245 0,1388 0,2476 0,1666
06 0,2476 0,1666 0,2669 0,1851
05 0,2669 0,2129 0,2824 0,2314
04 0,2824 0,2457 0,2939 0,2549
03 0,2939 0,2685 0,3016 0,2777
02 0,3016 0,2777 0,3055 0,2777
01 0,3055 0,3055 0,3055 0,3055
abs chance KO (=O)/CAS)(=C)
Av no skill O/C sneaky O/C dirty O/C dirty+sneaky O/C
10 0,034/0,013 0,034/0,014 0,083/0,037 0,072/0,033
09 0,069/0,028 0,069/0,028 0,144/0,065 0,144/0,065
08 0,116/0,046 0,116/0,046 0,220/0,100 0,208/0,096
07 0,174/0,069 0,174/0,069 0,313/0,144 0,313/0,144
06 0,243/0,097 0,243/0,097 0,398/0,185 0,387/0,181
05 0,301/0,120 0,301/0,120 0,468/0,219 0,468/0,219
04 0,347/0,139 0,347/0,139 0,521/0,245 0,509/0,241
03 0,382/0,153 0,382/0,153 0,558/0,264 0,558/0,264
02 0,405/0,162 0,405/0,162 0,579/0,275 0,567/0,270
01 0,417/0,167 0,417/0,167 0,583/0,278 0,583/0,278
Relative chance KO+ vs ejection
Av no skill sneaky dirty dirty+sneaky O/E
10 0,1948 0,9375 0,4390 1,5500
09 0,3659 0,9375 0,6992 1,5500
08 0,5639 1,2500 0,9794 1,8750
07 0,7732 1,2500 1,2617 1,8750
06 0,9813 1,4583 1,4913 2,0880
05 1,1272 1,4130 1,6557 2,0200
04 1,2295 1,4130 1,7717 1,9972
03 1,2992 1,4224 1,8491 2,0083
02 1,3427 1,4583 1,8939 2,0416
01 1,3636 1,3636 1,9091 1,9090
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JimmyFantastic
Joined: Feb 06, 2007
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| Posted:
Aug 07, 2010 - 17:40 |
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If you have a thrall with dp and sneaky git your tv is 90 and therefore too much for a fouling player. Thrall with dp is 60 and fine,Thrall with sneaky git is 70 and sucks. Thrall with guard and block is 90 and good. I didn't say sneaky git is a horrible pick, because i would take 1 or 2 on a goblin or halfling team. Sneaky git is a horrible double though, purely because of tv and the fact that it isn't guard. |
_________________
Pull down the veil - actively bad for the hobby! |
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Carnis
Joined: Feb 03, 2009
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| Posted:
Aug 07, 2010 - 23:13 |
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| jimmyfantastic wrote: | | If you have a thrall with dp and sneaky git your tv is 90 and therefore too much for a fouling player. Thrall with dp is 60 and fine,Thrall with sneaky git is 70 and sucks. Thrall with guard and block is 90 and good. I didn't say sneaky git is a horrible pick, because i would take 1 or 2 on a goblin or halfling team. Sneaky git is a horrible double though, purely because of tv and the fact that it isn't guard. |
Nah,
It's just 10k extra for the double, besides what else would you pick as skill #2 for a DP? Wrestle springs to mind, but surely that's worse than having DP+Sneaky.. |
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Ehlers
Joined: Jun 26, 2006
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| Posted:
Aug 07, 2010 - 23:34 |
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I would take sneak git.
But as you rarely foul at all, that would be a waste of time, TV and skill.
I dont think that sneaky git is that bad. Think of it as an extra stab attack on someone who is prone and need to be marked with a tacklezone.
Always someone who is prone and need to be put in a tacklezone. So instead of just doing a move mark action, do a foul action + mark action. |
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uuni
Joined: Mar 12, 2010
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| Posted:
Aug 08, 2010 - 01:50 |
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Is it possible in FFB-client to not use DP? Was that part of Carnises calculations? Does the optimum armor change if you have to use DP even on double-3? |
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Were_M_Eye
Joined: Sep 24, 2007
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| Posted:
Aug 08, 2010 - 02:42 |
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HLY
Joined: Nov 03, 2009
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| Posted:
Aug 08, 2010 - 11:12 |
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as DP's now only +1, it looses a heck of a lot of effectiveness, so much that maybe it can be survived not taking  |
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jarvis_pants
Joined: Oct 30, 2008
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Remember no penalties for blodge now. So a super cheap blodger would be nice or in my opinion dodge/wrestle which i shall now claim as wrodge, would be better suited for vamps. |
_________________
"May Nuffle have mercy on your rolls." - St.Basher |
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