| Poll |
| Are they balanced, are they unique? |
| They look great to me |
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28% |
[ 7 ] |
| Look Great |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| Hmm, not quite balanced yet... |
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32% |
[ 8 ] |
| Too Strong |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| Too similar to another team... |
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4% |
[ 1 ] |
| Too Weak |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| I just dont like them |
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24% |
[ 6 ] |
| Don't like the concept |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| I don't play in stunty so I dont care either way |
|
12% |
[ 3 ] |
|
| Total Votes : 25 |
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elara
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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 Posted:
Jul 27, 2003 - 04:10 |
 
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0-16 Blue Horror 6 2 3 5 dodge, stunty, big hand 40k Ag, Ph
0-2 Pink Horror 7 3 3 6 big hand, extra arms 70k Ag, Ph
Rerolls 50k
Strengths: Ball handling, speed, cheap rerolls, physical skills
Weaknesses: Fragile (AV5 & 6), no big guys, no TTM
A quick try against the nurgle team suggests I might have made them too fragile.. but its the equivalent of wood elves vs dwarves.
First version of the team was far too weak - even a faerie team reduced them to 3 players by end of the first half.
Changes in this version:
blue horrors gain dodge skill
pink horrors increase to ST3, lose stunty and cost increased to 70k.
I left skill advancement alone for now, though it might make sense for pink horrors to get general.
The upgrades are too much - now the team scores pretty easily and doesnt really get hurt, except goblin cheaters with chainsaws who managed to cause 4 niggles and a -AV in one game.
Pink horrors are rather a strong positional player, like a wardancer, so going to reduce them to 0-2.
Test roster at TR100 |
Last edited by elara on %b %27, %2003 - %22:%Jul; edited 2 times in total |
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Mr-Klipp
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Jul 27, 2003 - 04:55 |
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See, the problem is that in warhammer, horrors are hardly stunty. They are man sized at least. |
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sourwyrm
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Jul 27, 2003 - 08:42 |
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pink horrors should be 3 strength and maybe have the split skill if it were possible |
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Twahn
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Jul 27, 2003 - 13:50 |
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I agree with Klipp. Horrors aren't stunty at all...
I reckon you'd be better off making themed Chaos teams (like the Rotters) for the other 3 Chaos Gods. Slightly customised Chaos Warriors and Chaos Demon Big Guys (Bloodletters, Daemonettes, and Horrors?). |
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gophur
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Jul 27, 2003 - 17:29 |
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if the horrors were str3 that would potentially give this team what it needed to survive..as they are now tho they are slower than skinks with bad armor less str and no dodge. but with good ability to hold onto the ball.
I agree with the other folks that bringing in the other chaos teams would be a nice twist but they require more code as they have some funky skills. |
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elara
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Jul 27, 2003 - 18:05 |
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Playtesting showed them to be too weak, so I modified the roster a bit.
Blue horrors gained dodge to make the team a little more survivable
Pink horrors aren't stunty any more but are ST3 - 4 ST3 guys compared to 2 ST5 guys is still on the light side strength wise, but no negatives makes up for this. |
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slackman
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Jul 27, 2003 - 20:53 |
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ok, well, i havent played them, BUT, everyone having big hand seems a bit excessive, esp since they're all getting access to physical. id rather they lose that skill and either drop the price 10k, or gain something not quite so good. as it stands, the 4 7336 horrors are going to dominate the game as excellent fullbacks/linebackers, if they survive a few games. granted, they dont have big guys. but they do have 4 players who'll get 2d blocks on the rest of the stunties. they're also relatively fast, only the (broken?) skinks are quicker.
but then, not everyone rolls armor like me. i cant break snotling armor w/ my MB minotaurs, so maybe overall they're not too good.
slackman42 |
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gophur
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Jul 27, 2003 - 21:04 |
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i played 3 games against the revised team...my gobo cheaters got whipped and so did my snots. 100% of the deciding factor was the entire team needs 2+ to pick up the ball...so on a blitz with a str 2 guy you can then out run every other piece on the board...also with my snots they are way to fast for my tollies to keep up with them...now my trolls were also really unlucky and failed stupidity rolls alot...would be interesting to see who this team measues up over time...but i think that speed and 2+ for picking up the ball will make this team really really hard to beat.... |
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sourwyrm
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Jul 27, 2003 - 21:27 |
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Have you seen the figs? How can blue and pink horrors NOT have big hand? If you remember the Chaos Daemon lists, both the blue and pink horrors had dodge, stunty, and big hand. The pink horrors also had split, if a pink horror was the victim of a casualty (BH, SI, or RIP), then two blue horrors took its place. If one of those blue horros was BH, then the pink horror missed the next game, if both were BH then the pink horror died. Now, I doubt that would be very easy to program, but these were Jervis's experimental Tzeentch rules. If you wanted to give the Tzeentch team more power you could give them the bird looking Lord of Change, which I don't remember the stats for. Something like 6 7 4 9, don't remember the skills offhand. |
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EvolveToAnarchism
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Jul 27, 2003 - 23:07 |
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A few comments:
1) Fluffyness: demons are hard to do in BB without introducing new rules. I think it's debatable whether blue horrors are small enough to be stunty (I dropped ungors for the same reason). They've got magic in the warhammer world, and it's kind of disappointing to not represent it somewhow on the pitch. But I've got a suggestion for tweaking them later on.
2) I'm glad you changed the pink horrors, they definitely weren't stunty. But it raises the issue of do they belong in stunty. IMHO stunty is about stunties, big guys and secret weapons (recent addition). The Pink Horrors are not big guys, so break one of the key elements of stunty. They seem too fast and should get acess to G and PH to be consistent with the fluff. Even with only 4 Pink Horrors, this team will revolve around these guys. With AG3 and Big Hand you'll be scoring with these guys all the time which is against the spirit of stunty. It wouldn't be such a big issue if there weren't so many of them. But as it stands there style of play should more closely resemble normal BB. I think this the major flaw of this team.
3) Revisiting Strengths & Weaknesses:
Strengths: Ball handling, speed, cheap rerolls, physical skills
You should add: passing game (Pink Horrors have AG3 aren't stunty and have extra arms which results in a strong passing game)
Weaknesses: Fragile (AV5 & 6), no big guys, no TTM
You should add: No Secret Weapons, it's dubious whether they should have an apoth being daemonic but it could be represented by the blessigns of Tzeentch. AV5 is crippling, you should probably reconsider it due to play balance and fluff reasons.
4) Do they add anything unique to stunty?
Most definitely: Scoring "big guys", a regular passing game, no BG (but this kind of duplicates some of the gnomes' uniqueness), frail beyond reason (at least the snotlings have regen and thick skull), awesome ball handling abilities. But most importanlty I think they completely break the stunty style of play.
A few suggestions (feel free to use any of these ideas):
1) Don't feel limited by previous miniatures. The latest addition renamed them "Horrors of Tzeentch" dumping the pink and blue horror dichotomy. You might want to take this into account or you could stick with the retro version. I'd suggest mixing a bit of the old with some of the new. Invent your own colours, for example purple horrors  Tzeentch is the reknowned for his mutations. Play with this idea.
2) Don't give them AV5. Demons certainly are tougher then snotlings. An argument could be made that it represents demonic instability but it will in all likelihood cripple the team. And thus greatly reduce any fun. AV6 would make them weak enough.
3) Consider giving them positional horrors. For example: purple horrors with claws (blitzers), azure horrors with big hand (throwers), scarlet horrors with extra arms (catchers) etc. This would allow you to overcome any objections that blue horrors aren't stunty and would make the team truly unique, the first stunty team with positional players.
4) Another way of making horror unique would be to drop dodge and give them all pro to represent the blessing of Tzeentch. Although this would probably require serious playtesting.
5) Another option for Big Guys would be to give them Chaos Spawn, if spawn tend to congregate anywhere I'd definitely think it would be with Tzeentch. I'd suggest modelling them after the fanatic. Perhaps, M4 ST7 AG1, AV9 Fanatic, RSC, Claw, Big Guy. Unless you give them regeneration you'll be constantly replacing this guy. So you might want to give it Bonehead/Really Stupid and Regeneration. They'd be unreliable BGs and give the team another unique feel. |
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Gnomes are trash
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