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Balle2000



Joined: Sep 25, 2008

Post   Posted: Nov 16, 2019 - 14:19 Reply with quote Back to top

@Garion Have you tried going slightly less fluorescent on the green? I feel it's a tad too garish to fit with the other logos right now. And is there something more pacty than a minotaur, say, the face of Dieter Hammerlash or helmet of Galem Goreblade? Razz Anyhow, really nice to see the Chaos All-Stars symbol which spawned the pact roster in the first place.

@Frylen I like the snake, but similarly I think the colors are a tad too garish, maybe tone them down? Decluttering that logo a bit might also work. Less warpstone, more snake! Twisted Evil

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MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Nov 16, 2019 - 15:07 Reply with quote Back to top

I agree with Balle2000, colours are a bit too "fluo" compared to the other logos' palette.

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Rafe



Joined: Apr 27, 2009

Post   Posted: Nov 16, 2019 - 15:47 Reply with quote Back to top

Goodbye, question marks!
Frylen



Joined: Oct 15, 2011

Post   Posted: Nov 16, 2019 - 17:14 Reply with quote Back to top

First I want to say I toned down the purple yesterday so any early reactions may need new reflections now. The new purple is in my opinion in line with the other logos. No other logo is purple but some have saturated colours and it is important that the logos are distinguishable at small sizes so there must be an allowance to different hue. I left the warpstone untouched because it’s a warpstone and I think it ought to be fluorescent. The main reason for the edit was the former outline that I personally felt came out different from what was intended – especially in the smaller sizes. The new outline is more in line with the high elf logo. I think the different race logos differs a lot internally as it is. I have mainly used the skaven and high elf logo as template and I believe the difference between several of the previous existing logos is bigger than mine compared to them (but I respect other opinions on the matter).

I believe the green in the pact logo comes from the early fluff. And in my opinion: Since there already is a logo with even more green – Underworld Smile - I think the new pact logo therefore falls within some kind of spectrum and not outside. But it's my personal view that hangs on the logic I presented before.

For reference:

ImageImageImage

And these are examples of logos that I think differ a lot towards each other as it were:
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Balle2000



Joined: Sep 25, 2008

Post   Posted: Nov 17, 2019 - 01:56 Reply with quote Back to top

Yeah, you can't but take feedback for what it is. Its feedback, and it comes down to preferences. If you like the result, and feel suggested changes won't make it better, you shouldn't act on them imo. It's almost as hard to discuss about graphics as it is to dance about architecture.
Sigmar1



Joined: Aug 13, 2008

Post   Posted: Nov 17, 2019 - 05:25 Reply with quote Back to top

For what it's worth I've never liked the Skaven logo. I've always thought the upside down triangle would be a better one.

That said, I love the UW warpstone, but I'm not getting the goblin-headed snake.

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Frylen



Joined: Oct 15, 2011

Post   Posted: Nov 17, 2019 - 09:14 Reply with quote Back to top

It’s been a lot of feedback recently so my answer addressed more than one reply. Some people want more snake some wants less or even none snake. It’s hard to act on it because it stirs up as much new feedback as it satisfy. I tried to do this by the forum in the beginning of my entrance in this thread and got a lot of strange feedback such as “you should do this instead” or “it looks more like something else”. Almost no one gave me suggestions on how to make adaptions and tweaks to improve the existing draft. I guessed it was because the forum is to big so I decided not to go by this thread anymore and instead do my last draft in a more secluded form. I got a lot of feedback and did a lot of new drafts on the logo that finally made it. Much of this feedback during that process came from rather high authority.

In my previous post yesterday I wanted to show the difficulty with stating one logo isn’t on par with the others since there obviously are a lot of different styles and detail level on the various race logos. This is due to that different artist made them, I guess. I’m a high school teacher in geography and no artist so I’m flattered that my final draft was chosen to the page. I really want everyone to like it since it took a lot of effort and time to make it. It’s not flawless but finished- I simply can’t redo it over and over again once it’s published (I did it once and I hope most have noticed it getting more in line with the others now than before). The feedback I’ve recieved tells me not everyone appreciates it and it makes me sad. I respect your opinions and I just want to explain that I’ve had a process where I’ve tried to meet many of the criteria new feedback states I’ve missed out on. Maybe I have, Maybe it’s suggestive?

Regarding the snake: it’s from the helmet of Underworld creepers.
Wozzaa



Joined: Apr 23, 2016

Post   Posted: Nov 17, 2019 - 09:30 Reply with quote Back to top

It'll be very hard to make a logo that everyone likes.

I think we can all agree that they look heaps better than the question marks. If you really don't like it, can you live with it... Probably.

You've done an awesome job Frylen.

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ArrestedDevelopment



Joined: Sep 14, 2015

Post   Posted: Nov 17, 2019 - 09:37 Reply with quote Back to top

My issue with both logos is simple - the colour palette is not in-line with the more neutral colourbase of the originals. I understand the history of the creepers and actually quite appreciate the nod, the new purple is also a good change. But the neon green is still extremely visually arresting, to a point not seen in any of the other logos. The pact logo green is similarly a bit too lime, but can be more easily ignored.


I absolutely appreciate the time you've put into this, and do not take the criticism as a sign you should not have bothered.

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Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Post   Posted: Nov 17, 2019 - 10:45 Reply with quote Back to top

I've made some adjustments to the pact/renegades logo, made the green more matt. fixed some of the blurring on the 32px and 48px versions, and made the horns highlight less of a stark contrast. FYI this isnt uploaded yet, but likely will be at some point today.

As for the mino, I won't get rid of it. Some people really like it, some people think it isn't a strong enough signifier of the roster being Pact/Renegades which i understand as Ideally i would like to have all 3 big guys on the image, but its just not possible at such low resolution.

Personally I think it is more clear that the team is pact/renegades with the Minotaur over the chaos star than just the chaos star on its own. Sure us old heads will get the colour reference to chaos all stars, but newer people wont, and a simple Chaos symbol on its own suggests Chaos Chosen more than a chaos symbol with a minotaur over it. Plus I and others think the minotaur is cool.

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MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Nov 17, 2019 - 11:46 Reply with quote Back to top

Frylen and Garion, I'm really sorry if my feedback maybe sounded offensive towards your works and effort.
I think that both logos are graphically great, but since I'm a passionate guy about BB I commented them with the purpose of improving them.
It's not nitpicking for the sake of trolling your work or to imply it's a shoddy work, I'm grateful you did it, it's better indeed than having the two question marks.
Still, I think that, although the snake idea is a nice nod to UW, with the Goblin face it looks too cartoonesque to me, a normal snake coiled around the warpstone would have been better in my opinion, while the Minotaur's head could suggest Chaos Chosen to new people, because it's the only Big Guy portrayed in the logo, either you put all the 3 (impossible because would make the logo messy in low size) or no Big Guy at all.
Anyway, we'll live with it, I'll recycle ArrestedDevelopment's words because they express my thought as well: "I absolutely appreciate the time you've put into this, and do not take the criticism as a sign you should not have bothered."

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Last edited by MattDakka on Nov 17, 2019 - 12:57; edited 1 time in total
Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Post   Posted: Nov 17, 2019 - 11:55 Reply with quote Back to top

MattDakka wrote:
... while the Minotaur's head could suggest Chaos Chosen to new people, because it's the only Big Guy portrayed in the logo, either you put all the 3 (impossible because would make the logo messy in low size) or no Big Guy at all...


I literally just replied to this comment in the post above. Did you read it?

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MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Nov 17, 2019 - 11:58 Reply with quote Back to top

Yes, I did. I just repeated what I don't like in the logo.

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Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Post   Posted: Nov 17, 2019 - 12:06 Reply with quote Back to top

MattDakka wrote:
Yes, I did. I just repeated what I don't like in the logo.


why repeat it? I answered your specific point.

So you said - you think people will confuse the chaos symbol with a minotaur over the top as being a logo for Chaos Chosen.

To which I replied - I feel a Chaos Logo on its own (with no big guy on) will look more like a Chaos Chosen logo than a Chaos logo with a Minotaur on. Plus I personally like the minotaur I think it looks cool.

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MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Nov 17, 2019 - 13:05 Reply with quote Back to top

I know you did, just I don't agree with your explanation, it's fine though, I'm not trying to change your mind. Smile
You think that a simple red/green Chaos star can be mistaken with Chaon Chosen logo, I think that a Chaos star with a Minotaur can be mistaken with Chaos Chosen logo.
I like your Minotaur's head, it's well drawn and cool, just I don't like it on the Chaos star for the Chaos Renegades.
We would have been both happy with the 3 Big Guys on the green/red Chaos star, but it's not possible because it gets messy when the icon is small, I understand it.

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