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Kondor



Joined: Apr 04, 2008

Post   Posted: Aug 13, 2020 - 06:44 Reply with quote Back to top

Oh, how Chaos have fallen. Being forced to redraft will kill them as it normally takes a while to skill them up. Chaos Pact is probably even more unplayable now.

With the implementation of seasons and skills coming at a much lower SPP rate, teams that rack up SPP quickly will have an advantage winners.

And the other major winner is every Big Guy ever drafted. Drop MVPs on him until he can choose a secondary skill for his first skill. Within a few games he WILL have Block. This may be the only thing that could help Pact not to suck completely.
Kondor



Joined: Apr 04, 2008

Post   Posted: Aug 13, 2020 - 08:36 Reply with quote Back to top

I had another thought. Goblins are still goblins but they really got a boost. Troll vomit is great. If you can multiblock and use it that will be even better.

However, I love that Sneaky Git always ignores doubles on the armor roll AND a Sneaky Git player can move after fouling. Talk about making fouling with a one skill saw good. Go throw your foul and then move back to safety. This in conjunction with cheap bribes will make the one skill looney deadly.

Improvements to TTM, the ooligan, and pogo are also helpful.
Throweck



Joined: Feb 23, 2013

Post   Posted: Aug 13, 2020 - 08:57 Reply with quote Back to top

Kondor wrote:
And the other major winner is every Big Guy ever drafted. Drop MVPs on him until he can choose a secondary skill for his first skill. Within a few games he WILL have Block. This may be the only thing that could help Pact not to suck completely.


MVPs are back to whole team random not 3 choices.

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Throweck



Joined: Feb 23, 2013

Post   Posted: Aug 13, 2020 - 08:57 Reply with quote Back to top

Kondor wrote:
I had another thought. Goblins are still goblins but they really got a boost. Troll vomit is great. If you can multiblock and use it that will be even better.


You cannot. Smile

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Grod



Joined: Sep 30, 2003

Post   Posted: Aug 13, 2020 - 09:09 Reply with quote Back to top

The two biggest changes to how many teams will play and whether or not they are nerfed:

  • The introduction of the Passing attribute, making passing either easier or more difficult for many player positions (but generally a negative for elves).
  • The introduction of "jump" rules, designed presumably, to open the board up slightly for running teams now that passing has been made more niche, so that defensive lines can be easily penetrated and jumped past.

I think the impact of jump rules are underestimated and they will heavily favour high agility teams, particuarly elves and vampires (if they come back).

So elves lose badly from the introduction of a passing attribute, but gain the most from jump rules.

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Balle2000



Joined: Sep 25, 2008

Post   Posted: Aug 13, 2020 - 09:26 Reply with quote Back to top

Grod wrote:
I think the impact of jump rules are underestimated and they will heavily favour high agility teams, particuarly elves and vampires (if they come back).

I agree.

The Jump action might just be the biggest game changer in Blood Bowl since 3rd edition.
jonno



Joined: Mar 14, 2014

Post   Posted: Aug 13, 2020 - 09:55 Reply with quote Back to top

Garion wrote:


Yup this was my gut reaction, other biggest winners imo are (in no particular order) Pro Elves, Black Orcs, and Skaven.


Could you elaborate a bit on this? Interested in hearing your thoughts.
Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Post   Posted: Aug 13, 2020 - 12:05 Reply with quote Back to top

jonno wrote:
Garion wrote:


Yup this was my gut reaction, other biggest winners imo are (in no particular order) Pro Elves, Black Orcs, and Skaven.


Could you elaborate a bit on this? Interested in hearing your thoughts.


Ok I will try, but I think you could write a book on this subject. So I will write some thoughts up for now.

First Dwarves - Their roster is pretty much unchanged.

lets say for arguements sake this is the starting roster they used to used (yes I know there are variants).
5 Blockers
2 Runners
2 Blitzers
2 Troll Slayers
3 Rerolls
Total 1,000k

The new roster would come in at
6 Blockers
2 Runners
2 Blitzers
1 Troll Slayers
3 Rerolls
Total 995k

This is one of the stronger starting rosters in the game after all the price changes. Also personally I always felt taking more than one slayer at rookie level was suboptimal anyway as frenzy is too much of a negatrait for me, positioning and control is always more important to me (some will disagree with this last point, that is fine, just personal preference on the frenzy bit)

They have all the basic skills covered already. So they just need some MB and Guard then they can happily take random skills the rest of the time.

On primary random rolls for the team first they only need 3 SPP to get here, so that's one MVP, or 2 cas, neither are remotely difficult to get, and they only cost 10tv. So half price. Also they only need another 4 spp after getting 3 to get their 2nd random roll.

Random skill selection for linemen for G access - there are 12 choices, Block and Tackle already selected, which leaves you 10. Dauntless, Dp, Frend, Kick, Pro are all decent choices especially for 10k, shadowing, strip ball, SH, are bad choices, Wrestle isn't ideal but for 10k is fine. when they season ends, just dont re-hire the players with bad skills, and stick them on LoS duty every game so they get injured or just sack them straight away.


Random skill selection for linemen for S access -
There are again 12 choices, you have thick skull, and you can't take Strong Arm, which again leaves 10 choices, the amazing ones - Guard and Mighty Blow, Stand Firm, the decent - Brawler, Grab, still acceptable but not great - arm bar, break tackle, juggernaut, Pile Driver (might be okish on a DP player), the bad - mutliblock.

Then if you look at the other players on the team its pretty easy to pimp this team up using randoms only. With a couple of selected skills dotted about.

Runners will always skill up fast in dwarf teams, their development will be block, tackle and Leader, once you have leader you can drop your rrs probably down to 1.

What I am getting at is this roster is perfect for abusing the new system. Fortunately Dwarves are still slow as hell, so require a good coach to use effectively, and i think this new team building mechanic is more complex than the old one, so again will benefit experienced coaches more that know when to game the system and when to buy into important skills.

Pro Elves and Skaven. I am lumping these 2 in together to save space and time. First of all they are both pretty good against Dwarves (in the right hands) and I think we will see a lot of Dwarves, I also think we will be seeing a lot of Black Orc teams too again these two races should cope very well against that opposition.

Both Pro Elf and Skaven starting roster is the same, they both drop the thrower they used to be able to afford, and take 2 blitzers, 4 Catchers or Gutters Runners, then the rest linemen. This is a bit odd as it would appear as though this rule set was meant to make throwing more important, for me its even worse. Throwers are just more expensive leader caddies now.

So like the dwarves these two races have among the better starting rosters in the game. Do either of them lose anything from not taking a thrower at rookie level... not really tbh. Its more of a shame for pro elves, but really you want your catchers running the ball anyway.

Other positives -
* pro elf blitzers pass on a 3+, this is abonormal in this rules set, it gives you a little more versatility over all, but it also gives you easy spp farming on your key players.
* Skaven rrs are now 50k, 10k less than they used to be.
* Importantly - both teams observe the rule of 5, and can always keep their 5 best players protected at kick off, perfect for the mix max meta that this rule set pushes.
* Both have pretty great OTT potential, just give a skaven Sprint and Sure feet, maybe 2 heads as well, pro elf requires more investment, but still not too hard - +Ma, Sprint, Sure Feet, Dodge.
* As the teams develop you can buy the thrower, give them leader, drop a rr for more tv efficency.
* Pro elf can take dirty Players and sneaky git in theory ball (doubt this will happen much) but it could be effective. I would allow my linemen to accumulate SPP until forced to spend, then I would roll for a random skill if DP then great you can then pay for sneaky git, and you have only spent 30tv, and you can foul with +1 and only get sent off 1 in 6 (ignoring argue call). If not luckily roll something worthwhile then fire them. Landing on Kick would also be good. 90k for a great fouler is decent,

I don't think these teams really benefit from the random skills abuse, though you could deffo try your luck at the end of the season if a player skills up. But neither team really needs doubles. 1MB 1 Guard in pro elf would be nice, but is it needed I dunno in this edition.

Its probably worth saying, especially for Pro Elves I do not see them being used an awful lot because similar to a race like necromantic they need a good coach to know how to use them effectively, but I do think they will be one of the better teams in this edition.

well I could go on an on. But I am bored now. I will come back and do Black Orcs later.

TL/DR - consider these teams in a meta that will reward extreme min maxing, mostly in terms of the rule of 5, low rr count, primary skill access and random skill selection options. Then i think you will start to come the conclusion I have. Also consider these teams in terms of how forgiving they are, dwarves through thoughtless blocking, and elves and skaven through usual agility bs.

P.s. the more I think about necromantic the more i think they have also been buffed, possibly just not in season 1.

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jonno



Joined: Mar 14, 2014

Post   Posted: Aug 13, 2020 - 12:16 Reply with quote Back to top

Cheers
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Aug 13, 2020 - 13:57 Reply with quote Back to top

Thanks for elaborating, Garion. So, we should call it "Dwarf Bowl". If only Dwarf Blockers had lost Tackle...
Grod



Joined: Sep 30, 2003

Post   Posted: Aug 13, 2020 - 15:15 Reply with quote Back to top

Dwarves may not be all that great with the updated rules, possibly a lot worse. The new jump action is going to make a Dwarf defensive line hard to keep up, especially against elves. Jump is about a lot more than cage breaking, its about going straight through defensive lines and opening the field up, which Dwarves may struggle against.

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DrDeath



Joined: Mar 27, 2011

Post   Posted: Aug 13, 2020 - 16:46 Reply with quote Back to top

One-turners aren't going to be a regular player type now either, probably not worth selecting skills for that when MA is capped at 9?
ph0enyx13



Joined: Nov 14, 2015

Post   Posted: Aug 13, 2020 - 17:41 Reply with quote Back to top

steinerp wrote:

The AV increase at 10k is nice but I don't see it as being meaningful. A level one stat increases costs 18 SPP. Lineelves are unlikely to ever get that and even than their is a 50% chance that it is an AG or P stat increase which, while not useless, isn't worth the three random skills or two choosen skills you gave up to get it.


+av (or ma as they are on the same numbers) is 14/16. On the 2/16 where you can't take +av one you can take +ag or a double, the other you can take +ag, +st, or a double.
Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Post   Posted: Aug 13, 2020 - 19:04 Reply with quote Back to top

DrDeath wrote:
One-turners aren't going to be a regular player type now either, probably not worth selecting skills for that when MA is capped at 9?


Getting one push isn't hard. Natural one Turner aren't a thing now. But one turns are still deffo a thing and not particularly hard with ma9 sprint.

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MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Aug 13, 2020 - 19:13 Reply with quote Back to top

If dodge mechanics and modifiers have not been changed (like happened for Leap) then 1TTD should still be viable even with MA 9.
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