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Nelphine



Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Post   Posted: Aug 13, 2020 - 19:34 Reply with quote Back to top

I wish in particular that players (like saurii or bobs or bloaters etc) who are hard to skill, wouldn't have the agent fee after they get block. I hate playing rookie teams (which I won't go into), and redrafting rules as harsh as they are now, will inevitably lead to most of those kind of players being rookies.

Ideally, that means I'd like to be able to rotate through players like saurii without having the majority of them come back as rookies every season - say only 1 or 2 as a rookie each season.

I'd love the 'you get at least one season free' rule, but I agree with Uber - it probably needs to be based on something more specific, like tv value of learned skills. I'd probably lower it to 50k or 3 skills (not one or the other, but have both as cut off points) instead of the 60k he suggested. Once you reach that point, 20k per season played.

Alternatively, something like the Wants to Retire roll, but add in a modifier based on how many skills/tv of skills you have. Like it would be roll a die each season, on an 8+ you want to retire (agent fee: 20k per season at this point); you get a +1 for each season you have completed, a +1 for each learned skill you have, and a +1 for each 30k of tv worth of skills you have. These would all stack with each other, so the 'problem' players should all quickly want to retire, but should allow a 1 skill slow to skill player last at least 1 season before wanting to retire. However, I have a feeling that's too complicated a system (and I have a feeling Wants to Retire is too complicated and is why it got replaced with a flat 20k per season).
thoralf



Joined: Mar 06, 2008

Post   Posted: Aug 13, 2020 - 20:35 Reply with quote Back to top

pielover101 wrote:
IMO a Nurgle player trying to retain 4 block players should not be paying the same retention fees as a legend Elf going into their fifth season.


Bear in mind that this legendary Elf won't be farming spps as easily with passes anymore.

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SzieberthAdam



Joined: Aug 31, 2008

Post   Posted: Aug 13, 2020 - 20:51 Reply with quote Back to top

Image

This is great! I want to request custom skill pricing too for random/picked skills and statups.

EDIT: And naturally, custom agents fee.

BTW, for the first [C] redraft all skills will be considered as picked? For me, that seems the correct way of doing it.

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"I love him who is ashamed when the dice fall in his favour, and who then asketh: 'Am I a dishonest player?' - for he is willing to succumb."
-- Friedrich Nietzsche: Thus Spake Zarathustra, Zarathustra's Discourses, 4.


Last edited by SzieberthAdam on Aug 13, 2020 - 21:12; edited 1 time in total
Dominik



Joined: Oct 29, 2004

Post   Posted: Aug 13, 2020 - 21:04 Reply with quote Back to top

Does the cumulative gold per season agent fee mean that I have to pay 20k for each player I want to keep additionally to his value?
Balle2000



Joined: Sep 25, 2008

Post   Posted: Aug 13, 2020 - 21:04 Reply with quote Back to top

SzieberthAdam wrote:
BTW, for the first [C] redraft all skills will be considered as picked? For me, that seems the correct way of doing it.

Or simply reboot all teams wanting to play competitive to 1000k.



wait...



leaks!!
pielover101



Joined: May 17, 2018

Post   Posted: Aug 14, 2020 - 06:50 Reply with quote Back to top

If you wanted to scale retention fees on skills, how about a retention fee of 1k per spp earned (spent spp would be better but people could bank it and spend it first game next season). A block guy is only paying 3-12k, a legend is paying 70k+ and more the longer they stay.
SzieberthAdam



Joined: Aug 31, 2008

Post   Posted: Aug 14, 2020 - 07:24 Reply with quote Back to top

I would do similarly if I would write the rules. Would keep the traditional progression but with 10k extra for every level above Experienced and 1k extra value for every played game as Legend, plus a bloodier injury table with higher probability of lasting injuries (with many nigling) but less deads.

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"I love him who is ashamed when the dice fall in his favour, and who then asketh: 'Am I a dishonest player?' - for he is willing to succumb."
-- Friedrich Nietzsche: Thus Spake Zarathustra, Zarathustra's Discourses, 4.
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Aug 14, 2020 - 09:01 Reply with quote Back to top

SzieberthAdam wrote:
Image

This is great! I want to request custom skill pricing too for random/picked skills and statups.

EDIT: And naturally, custom agents fee.

BTW, for the first [C] redraft all skills will be considered as picked? For me, that seems the correct way of doing it.


It is missing the base treasury (1,000,000). We might want that to be different to the initial treasury.

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[SL] Rumble - 16 team KO - Brand new teams only - ALWAYS recruiting
tussock



Joined: May 29, 2011

Post   Posted: Aug 14, 2020 - 09:44 Reply with quote Back to top

Just gunna say 20k per player per season is fine.

At 1350, a good minmax trim will leave you with a ~910k base team, plus 440k in skills and seasons, or 22 skills+seasons.

NB: You get average 80k per game, adding positions or RRs after rebuy is very affordable, right through your 15 games because of the cap.

7 players through, 2 skills each.
6 players through, 2.5 skills each.
5 players through, 3 skills each.
4 players through, 4.5 skills each.
3 players through, 6 skills each! Legends!

Like, a player like Debog (7658 Blodge vamp), could still redraft after 420 games!

If you want to keep players, if you value block on a ST 4 or whatever, just keep them, the option is there. It's huge stacks of room for all sorts of things on 11 players.

What you can't keep is a large stack of high skill players for a long time. Which is the whole point. Every season you let more random skill Guard/MB dorfs through for free, a kitten cries. Stop making kittens cry.

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Verminardo



Joined: Sep 27, 2006

Post   Posted: Aug 14, 2020 - 11:39 Reply with quote Back to top

cdassak wrote:
Based on pure math, I do believe that having to constantly build for tournaments is worse that building just once. In the end it will create another imbalance based on the number of games each coach can play every year. One can argue that the same thing applies now (I do believe that if your goal is to play in tournaments it's not that difficult to build teams for them but it's another discussion and kinda pointless now) but it will be more severe with the new rules.


Yes, I predict we will see teams that have more skills at the same TV because they have been cycling players until they got the random skills they wanted. Stats will arguably only be an option if you're prepared to cycle players. So there will absolutely still be an imbalance and, to a degree, there should be because coaches who are willing to invest a lot to prepare for tournemanets should get a pay-off from that. Otherwise we might as well make the full switch to NAF style.

Will it be more severe? If a season is 15 games that means you need probably 13-15 games before each Major, so, just to compete in all the Majors, you need to play 70+ games of prep per year, and that's not even counting XFL. It's also not allowing any tolerance for setbacks like your team getting unluckily wiped out and you having to start over. So it could easily go up to 100+ games if you want to enter competitive teams, so basically the equivalent of a Box Trophy run, every year, just to prep for Majors. Speaking for myself only, it is very very unlikely I will do that. I might consider throwing in my Box Trophy teams, but they will (a) have only one season played, and (b) will have been built with always just the next game in mind, both of which will make them not optimized for Majors.

So I think cdassak is raising a very important point here. We haven't really been thinking this through.
ArrestedDevelopment



Joined: Sep 14, 2015

Post   Posted: Aug 14, 2020 - 11:48 Reply with quote Back to top

You're thinking of the 5-10% who optimize for tournaments and create the barriers for the rest of the site though.

If it's truly that difficult to make a perfect major team, then the guy that joined last month and only got a season or two seasons in might think his skill at the game gives him a chance, right? Rather than just looking at a swathe of finely tuned monsters and concluding it's not worth his time nor the hassle of scheduling.

If anything this shouldn't create a meta where people struggle to pump out 100+ games every year to "prep" competitive teams for majors, it should create a meta where people are comfortable entering just whatever they've been playing.

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Verminardo



Joined: Sep 27, 2006

Post   Posted: Aug 14, 2020 - 12:15 Reply with quote Back to top

No AD I'm talking about 70+ games just to do basic Major prep, as in, enter a team that has played one season or close to one season. Think it through!
ArrestedDevelopment



Joined: Sep 14, 2015

Post   Posted: Aug 14, 2020 - 12:17 Reply with quote Back to top

I am fully aware of what you meant. 5x 15. But I also think you should read what I wrote and think about it - we're trying to cater to the full site and any potential newcomers, not just the top end of the tourney scene.

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koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Aug 14, 2020 - 12:28 Reply with quote Back to top

Do random skills count for full TV? If not, they should.

So sure, you may be able to get the skills for fewer SPPs but they have to cost full TV.

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[SL] Rumble - 16 team KO - Brand new teams only - ALWAYS recruiting
Verminardo



Joined: Sep 27, 2006

Post   Posted: Aug 14, 2020 - 12:42 Reply with quote Back to top

They don't though.
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