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Poll
Do you think the New BB2020 Necromantic Horror are less powerfull than in the past?
Yes
46%
 46%  [ 14 ]
No
36%
 36%  [ 11 ]
The same
16%
 16%  [ 5 ]
Total Votes : 30


Muff2n



Joined: May 20, 2017

Post   Posted: Dec 01, 2020 - 11:33 Reply with quote Back to top

I voted about the same. I like the new wraiths a lot, but things are more expensive now. MattD's advice seems on the money to me. But I agree with OP that fouling has not improved for zombies - I don't see zombies taking Sneaky Git at 40k!
ClayInfinity



Joined: Aug 15, 2003

Post   Posted: Dec 01, 2020 - 11:55 Reply with quote Back to top

I havent done the maths, but I would get a ghoul in there. I would tend to go with just one wraith (subject to the maths) as i see it as a support piece (a good one if he gets guard) and you need as many ball handlers as possible. As i said I havent done the maths but I would go with 2 Golems, 1 Wraith, 1 Wolf, 1 Ghoul and Zombies/RR's for taste.

No issue with 2 RR's in my view...
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Dec 01, 2020 - 12:38 Reply with quote Back to top

argos_72 wrote:

I like Variant 4 of https://fumbbl.com/help:LRB6NecromanticSetUp, so 5 zombies.

That's the old Necro roster.
Check the BB2020 Necro roster and the variants here:
https://fumbbl.com/help:BB20NecromanticSetUp

P.S. the BB2020 Necro roster is not playable yet on FUMBBL.

About Zombie fouling: for sure fouling is not worse for them, just a bit better (if you roll 6 on argue the call the fouler is not ejected, you can foul then move, and Sneaky Git reduces the chances of being spotted to 1/6).
The Zombies can't pass the ball, ok, but who cares. You don't play Necro to play Zombieball. Even Elves refrain from passing with new throwing rules.
Lyracian



Joined: Oct 29, 2015

Post   Posted: Dec 01, 2020 - 12:55 Reply with quote Back to top

A DP/SG Ghoul is 115k which is about the same TV as 3 Zombies at 120k. Dirty Player increases the removal odds but you still have to get them two skills. Think I would prefer random general skills on Zombies and you can just keep the 50k Zombies that get the skills you want.
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Dec 01, 2020 - 13:15 Reply with quote Back to top

Muff2n wrote:
But I agree with OP that fouling has not improved for zombies - I don't see zombies taking Sneaky Git at 40k!

If you don't want to take Sneaky Git on a Zombie, you can take 2 DP on 2 different Zombies. Still good.
The point is, Zombies are not useless. Cheap foulers are useful.
CAB



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Dec 01, 2020 - 15:35 Reply with quote Back to top

Lyracian wrote:
A DP/SG Ghoul is 115k which is about the same TV as 3 Zombies at 120k. Dirty Player increases the removal odds but you still have to get them two skills. Think I would prefer random general skills on Zombies and you can just keep the 50k Zombies that get the skills you want.


It is way faster to get Sneaky Git on a Ghoul and you also can have a DP Zombie too.

There are many benefits of Sneaky Git on Ghouls as they are faster and more agile so can sweep in foul and then move to assist someplace else.

A Ghoul can probably get to both skills as fast as you get your first Zombie to DP if you like.

I think this is more a play-style thing than anything else. But personally I want my Zombies to be punching bags and so it can be a bit hard to get them where they need to be to do a good fouling.

Sneaky Git on a Zombie sound like a terrible choice of SPP. They are slow and not very agile so can't really capitalise on the skill that much. I would just stick with DP on them. I would even be surprised if a Zombie can accumulate that much SPP in the first place.
Galadang



Joined: Feb 26, 2020

Post   Posted: Dec 01, 2020 - 17:17 Reply with quote Back to top

I mistake the vote, I want to say yes
argos_72



Joined: Mar 02, 2007

Post   Posted: Dec 01, 2020 - 21:40 Reply with quote Back to top

Lyracian wrote:

Also my question was how many times have you passed with a zombie not how many you will have on a starting team.

Never on voluntary basis.
But it happened with a natural 6 on bouncing ball that isolated zombie into a melee catch the ball. I can see such event every two or three match I play with Undead or Necros.
In this case the player with PA ='-' cannot do anything if he is isolated. No any possibility that wait to block or try a block and dodge which is useless.


Last edited by argos_72 on Dec 01, 2020 - 21:59; edited 1 time in total
argos_72



Joined: Mar 02, 2007

Post   Posted: Dec 01, 2020 - 21:52 Reply with quote Back to top

MattDakka wrote:
argos_72 wrote:

I like Variant 4 of https://fumbbl.com/help:LRB6NecromanticSetUp, so 5 zombies.

That's the old Necro roster.
Check the BB2020 Necro roster and the variants here:
https://fumbbl.com/help:BB20NecromanticSetUp

P.S. the BB2020 Necro roster is not playable yet on FUMBBL.


The only decent is Variation 2 (3 RR's, no Fleshies) because for a non agile team hae 2 RR is not playable IMO. Variation 1 is too much predictable there is only one ball keaper.
Variation 3 to be honest why shall I play Necro if I cannot put a big guy in the team....
The mroe I think to this team the more I cannot find a big values for the Wraiths. Too much expensive...

MattDakka wrote:

About Zombie fouling: for sure fouling is not worse for them, just a bit better (if you roll 6 on argue the call the fouler is not ejected, you can foul then move, and Sneaky Git reduces the chances of being spotted to 1/6).


For sure with SG skill fouling is something mandatory for a zombie, because risk is really low (if I understand the rule they are ejected only if they make a double on the Injury table isn't it?

MattDakka wrote:

The Zombies can't pass the ball, ok, but who cares. You don't play Necro to play Zombieball. Even Elves refrain from passing with new throwing rules.


Yes I don't care a lot if Zombies cannot pass the ball. Wraiths than cannot pass the balls this I care much more... for 95k and ST only 3... to be honest what is the utility of a Wraith? Shouting "booo" in your opponent's face:?: Bah...
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Dec 01, 2020 - 21:53 Reply with quote Back to top

How can an isolated Zombie catch a bouncing ball?
Either there is a scrum, where the ball scatters many times, and it's caught by the Zombie, or he's alone, but then it's unlikely he will catch a bouncing ball on the empty field.
Also, I play Undead and Necro, and it doesn't happen every 2 or 3 match.
If the Zombie gets the ball, just hand off it and you will be fine.

I'm a Legend coach, trust me, Necro are perfectly playable with BB2020 rules. If you think they suck I'm ready to play a game vs you with Necro with new
rules in League division.

About Necro roster variation: Flesh Golems are essential, you will struggle without 2 ST 4 players.

The value of Wraiths is: Block, to have blocking reliability; S access, for Guard; Side Step to assist crowd surfs.


Last edited by MattDakka on Dec 01, 2020 - 22:03; edited 2 times in total
argos_72



Joined: Mar 02, 2007

Post   Posted: Dec 01, 2020 - 21:58 Reply with quote Back to top

[quote="CAB"]
Lyracian wrote:


Sneaky Git on a Zombie sound like a terrible choice of SPP. They are slow and not very agile so can't really capitalise on the skill that much. I would just stick with DP on them. I would even be surprised if a Zombie can accumulate that much SPP in the first place.


I agree. If I would chose SG I will give to a Ghoul... Also because Zombie can get Sneaky Git only as second advancement and to be honest it is very rare to see Zombie with two or more SPP skills! So to quick train your team SG on a Ghoul is not bad. Even if I would protect the Ghould before with a BLOCK skill, and give him SG only as secondary skills.
Ghouls with SG skills will be like honey for the bear's opponents...thirsty for revenge! Smile
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Dec 01, 2020 - 22:00 Reply with quote Back to top

If you bother to take a Ghoul, he should be skilled as ball carrier, with Sure Hands and Block.
Especially because you are complaining about lack of ball handling on the team. Very Happy
Necro are not a passing team, if you don't like their reduced passing ability, just don't play them.
They are a hybrid-bashy running team, not an agile passing team.


Last edited by MattDakka on Dec 01, 2020 - 22:06; edited 1 time in total
Mattius



Joined: Sep 03, 2006

Post   Posted: Dec 01, 2020 - 22:04 Reply with quote Back to top

I'm a bit surprised so many people voted that they think Necro will be worse in BB2020? SS and SF as starting roster skills on 4 players? They will be nothing short of a terror on defense and on offense they are already good. Rocketing up to tier 1+ in my opinion, but we will see soon enough!
argos_72



Joined: Mar 02, 2007

Post   Posted: Dec 01, 2020 - 22:04 Reply with quote Back to top

MattDakka wrote:
How can an isolated Zombie catch a bouncing ball?
Either there is a scrum, where the ball scatters many times, and it's caught by the Zombie, or he's alone, but then it's unlikely he will catch a bouncing ball on the empty filed.
Also, I play Undead and Necro, and it doesn't happen every 2 or 3 match.
If the Zombie gets the ball, just hand off it and you will be fine.

I'm a Legend coach, trust me, Necro are perfectly playable with BB2020 rules. If you think they suck I'm ready to play a game vs you with Necro with new
rules in League division.

About Necro roster variation: Flesh Golems are essential, you will struggle without 2 ST 4 players.

The value of Wraiths is: Block, to have blocking reliability; S access, for Guard; Side Step to assist crowd surfs.


I trust you, in fact it is a feeling what I have.
I need to play some match to see the difference and evaluate if I can adapt my Necro's gameplay style to the new ruleset... Looking forward for the FUMBBL BB2020 update!! Smile

Concerning fouling by a player with SG, is it possible to be ejected by double on the injury roll if armour is broken , correct?

P.S) if I start now the BlackBox Trophy with Necro team, will be then updated in January when Cris will adapt FUMBBL with the new roster ruleset? So in other words will my Wights Blitzer "transformed" in Wraiths?
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Dec 01, 2020 - 22:10 Reply with quote Back to top

New Sneaky Git ignores the double to break AV, not for the Injury. Double on Injury roll will be spotted.
So, just 1/6 to be spotted (assuming AV is broken).
Yes, all the teams will be updated to new ruleset when it will be implemented on FUMBBL.


Last edited by MattDakka on Dec 01, 2020 - 22:38; edited 1 time in total
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