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garyt1



Joined: Mar 12, 2011

Post   Posted: Apr 14, 2021 - 03:41 Reply with quote Back to top

Surely stadia and the balls are optional. Really anyone can play BB without Deathzone, so nothing should truely be core in there. Perhaps any teams in there should always be acceptable.

Is there an issue with any of the inducements being far too strong? If not then at least it is optionality.

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Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Post   Posted: Apr 14, 2021 - 09:01 Reply with quote Back to top

AzraelEVA wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/nPGOBi2N5hJ9wgmt.jpg

If you look at this picture the content of Death zone becomes clear.
The inducements seems to be mandatory since they are a follow up to the missing inducements in the core rules.

Above Mercenary it explicitly says expanded rules. So it is also a follow up for the core rules.


I don't think its clear tbh. Stadium rules. Alternate balls, weather table and cards have always been strictly optional from the little info we've got it looks like all of this stuff may be considered core?

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Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Post   Posted: Apr 14, 2021 - 09:03 Reply with quote Back to top

garyt1 wrote:
Surely stadia and the balls are optional. Really anyone can play BB without Deathzone, so nothing should truely be core in there. Perhaps any teams in there should always be acceptable.

Is there an issue with any of the inducements being far too strong? If not then at least it is optionality.


Problem is the reworked mercs are in here. Which have been core since 2008 ish. I think this could really muddy the water...

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mekutata



Joined: May 03, 2015

Post   Posted: Apr 14, 2021 - 11:07 Reply with quote Back to top

garyt1 wrote:
Surely stadia and the balls are optional. Really anyone can play BB without Deathzone, so nothing should truely be core in there. Perhaps any teams in there should always be acceptable.

Is there an issue with any of the inducements being far too strong? If not then at least it is optionality.


TBH what is mandatory at all? For fumbbl will be interesting what C will include and what not, and what will be part of the open match rankings. I think there are some new rules that can bring many coaches joy Smile

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koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Apr 14, 2021 - 13:10 Reply with quote Back to top

I'm sure that the devs will be very happy. Smile

Nothing is mandatory. It is the commish who decides what goes into a league. Not the rules committee.

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Lyracian



Joined: Oct 29, 2015

Post   Posted: Apr 14, 2021 - 13:24 Reply with quote Back to top

Garion wrote:

I don't think its clear tbh. Stadium rules. Alternate balls, weather table and cards have always been strictly optional from the little info we've got it looks like all of this stuff may be considered core?


GMG posted a YouTube video where they flick through the book. Page 18 has text along the lines of "these are all balanced inducements but are listed as optional". Cannot actually read the last paragraph but something about Commissioner/TO to decide which can be used.

garyt1 wrote:

Is there an issue with any of the inducements being far too strong? If not then at least it is optionality.

I guess it is a relative question about Strength? A DP Merc Human Lineman cost 130k, a Zombie would be 10k cheaper.

Legendary Lineman Merc can have 6/3/3+/5+/9+ DP+2 and Sneak Git for 130k

You can also buy a Blodge Lineman for 80-90k

They are defiantly better than basic Merc's. There is some great options for Bombers, Chainsaws, Assassins to add those secret weapons to any team but not sure everyone will want the horde of DP+2 these rules offer in the game.
ThierryM



Joined: Mar 27, 2015

Post   Posted: Apr 14, 2021 - 15:36 Reply with quote Back to top

Add a biaised ref to support your Chainsaws' Lunatics Horde and you're golden !

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Heroic_Tackle



Joined: Nov 05, 2006

Post   Posted: Apr 14, 2021 - 17:55 Reply with quote Back to top

I would like to know why these special mercs are cheaper, have more skills and on top can get DP+2 which is Not available for normal players and mercs. What is the rationale? Why would anyone take a normal merc instead of these Guys?

Can they get even Mighty Blow +2?

Not looking forward to this.

Just heard you can reduce stats like PA to get more Stuff. Brilliant.
Lyracian



Joined: Oct 29, 2015

Post   Posted: Apr 14, 2021 - 18:10 Reply with quote Back to top

Heroic_Tackle wrote:
Why would anyone take a normal merc instead of these Guys?

In any League that is using these rules standard Mercs are almost obsolete. It will be very hard to find a particular player/situation where you want the normal merc.

You would only take one for a particular positional. Say a Norse Berserker or Human Thrower that come with several build in skills. Snow Troll or Deathroller would work too.

Heroic_Tackle wrote:

Can they get even Mighty Blow +2?

The Big Guy and the Blocker can.
150k for a Str 4 Chaos Warrior with Block, MB+2 Loner(5+)

Heroic_Tackle wrote:

Just heard you can reduce stats like PA to get more Stuff. Brilliant.

You get a 10k cost reduction for each stat that you dump by one. That means everyone except the Bomber dumps PA. Many players can dump MV or AV or even AG if you need to get a skill for a particular cost.

You can even buy a Stunty with Leader for 40k which is the cheapest way to add a re-roll to your team I can think of.
Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Post   Posted: Apr 14, 2021 - 18:24 Reply with quote Back to top

I will reserve judgement until I read it but if this is true its incredibly bad design!

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Heroic_Tackle



Joined: Nov 05, 2006

Post   Posted: Apr 14, 2021 - 19:07 Reply with quote Back to top

@Lyracian: Wow, that´s just too much. Crazy. Star Players are already pretty bonkers, but this takes the cake.
Lyracian



Joined: Oct 29, 2015

Post   Posted: Apr 14, 2021 - 19:41 Reply with quote Back to top

Garion wrote:
I will reserve judgement until I read it but if this is true its incredibly bad design!

Heroic_Tackle wrote:
@Lyracian: Wow, that´s just too much. Crazy. Star Players are already pretty bonkers, but this takes the cake.

It is a shame because I really like the design space they were playing with here.

For me there were too many Star Players in 2016 and basic Mercenaries are too expensive for what you get.

Making lots of Bombers, Chainsaws and other fun choices available as Mercs is great. Making them a bit cheaper and having the option of stacking one or two skills on them is also good.

Most of the Merc are prevented from taking Leader but for some reason they allowed Stunty Merc's to take it!

For me allowing Goblins and Halflings to take a DP +2 was alright but then the next page they opened up the same to almost every team was upsetting.
JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Post   Posted: Apr 14, 2021 - 20:59 Reply with quote Back to top

OMG, really? Maybe the Amateurs can remain effective, if this is true.

It really wasn't necessary: we were perfectly happy dropping 80k for Merc Linemen, or even 120k for Merc Blitzers, to give us a bench.

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Webbe



Joined: Aug 13, 2003

Post   Posted: Apr 14, 2021 - 21:39 Reply with quote Back to top

I haven't played Blood bowl in a decade (except for some BB2 last fall before Crusader Kings 3 swallowed me up) but to me the merc rules seems totally broken.

All players can reduce stats (twice each) for 10k each and as no player need PA and many players don't need other stats it's basically free price reduction. The wording for maximum price reduction is not crystal clear (it says minimum price, and is on all cases the same as the base price of the player, which to me must mean final player price), but probably you get:

DP+2 sneaky git lineman for 50k (reduce stats 9 times so 5 1 5+ 6+ 7+)
Block Guard lineman for 60k (6 3 5+ 6+ 9+)
Bombardier HMP stunty for 30k (stats doesn't matter, you just reduce to minimum price which is 30k, you can even throw in pro and still get down to 40k)
Block MB+2 no negatrait (except loner 5+) Big Guy for 190k (+30k to add guard and/or 40k for claws) (4 5 6+ 6+ 9+)
Heroic_Tackle



Joined: Nov 05, 2006

Post   Posted: Apr 14, 2021 - 21:48 Reply with quote Back to top

Yeah, it could have been good. Something new and usable, more options, without being OP. Too bad.
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