Jokaero
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Joined: Dec 24, 2004
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  Posted:
May 29, 2022 - 12:41 |
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hi,
I'm a bit confused about the rules on bribes (p.91 in the rulebook).
The first paragraph kind of indicates that I can use a bribe instead of 'Argue the Call'.
The second paragraph says that I can use a single bribe after 'Argue the Call'except if I roll a 1 on the argue.
AFAIK the client asks for the bribe first and if failed rolls for AtC.
So my questions:
1) If I roll a 1 on a bribe roll (without AtC first), can I use another bribe? EDIT: no you can't
2) If I fail the bribe roll, can I then still try to AtC?
3) Do I basically have the choice whether I AtC first or whether I use a bribe first with the risk that I can't use a bribe anymore if I rolled a 1 on AtC first? |
Last edited by Jokaero on %b %16, %2022 - %11:%Aug; edited 2 times in total |
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kozak
Joined: Feb 25, 2017
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  Posted:
May 29, 2022 - 14:08 |
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Interesting topic, I would like to have the answer also!!! |
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MrCushtie
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Joined: Aug 10, 2018
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  Posted:
May 29, 2022 - 15:40 |
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As far as I can remember, Argue the Call doesn't stop a turnover happening (it just stops the player being sent off) so if you AtC first, you can't use a bribe afterwards, as your turn is already over.
If your coach is sent off, it doesn't prevent you using bribes on later turns. |
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Jokaero
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Joined: Dec 24, 2004
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  Posted:
May 30, 2022 - 07:58 |
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MrCushtie wrote: | As far as I can remember, Argue the Call doesn't stop a turnover happening (it just stops the player being sent off) so if you AtC first, you can't use a bribe afterwards, as your turn is already over.
If your coach is sent off, it doesn't prevent you using bribes on later turns. |
That's how I understand it as well. It still doesn't answer my questions though.
Can I still choose the order of AtC and Bribes? Can I use several bribes if I start with bribes instead of AtC? |
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Candlejack
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Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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  Posted:
May 30, 2022 - 16:00 |
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In both paragraphs it says that you can use a single bribe. So either with or without argue, only one bribe per sent-off |
_________________ --
The Sanity Resort |
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Jokaero
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Joined: Dec 24, 2004
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  Posted:
May 31, 2022 - 11:20 |
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Candlejack wrote: | In both paragraphs it says that you can use a single bribe. So either with or without argue, only one bribe per sent-off |
True, I missed that.
How about the order?
According to the 2nd paragraph, I can AtC first and in case of 2-5 still use a bribe.
But can I also use a bribe first and in case of a 1 try to AtC? |
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JackassRampant
Joined: Feb 26, 2011
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  Posted:
May 31, 2022 - 16:04 |
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MrCushtie wrote: | ... so if you AtC first, you can't use a bribe afterwards, as your turn is already over. |
Can't speak to accuracy, but if true this would mean you'd have to bribe first or not at all. |
_________________ Lude enixe, obliviscatur timor. |
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BardoHBD
Joined: May 11, 2022
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  Posted:
May 31, 2022 - 16:59 |
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The rules literally saw you can use a bribe after a failed, but not 1 argue. The way I read it is, if you’re going to argue, you have to do it first. |
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Jokaero
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Joined: Dec 24, 2004
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  Posted:
Jun 01, 2022 - 13:00 |
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BardoHBD wrote: | The rules literally saw you can use a bribe after a failed, but not 1 argue. The way I read it is, if you’re going to argue, you have to do it first. |
Ok, but if this was true then it's wrongly implemented in the client as it asks for bribe first and if you fail it, it asks for AtC. ![Confused](./modules/PNphpBB2/images/smiles/icon_confused.gif) |
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dabassman
Joined: Feb 17, 2006
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  Posted:
Aug 16, 2022 - 11:20 |
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I'd like to readdress this topic.
According to the rules, after your player is being sent off (that includes fouls and secret weapons), you can argue the call. After that, if you fail (and don't roll a 1), you can use a single bribe.
This order improves your chances to keep a player on the pitch without spending a bribe. Especially now, that the biased ref is included in the client, because you add +1 to ATC, so you (the coach) can't be ejected. |
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Jokaero
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Joined: Dec 24, 2004
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  Posted:
Aug 16, 2022 - 11:54 |
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.. and don't forget about 'Bribery & Corruption' that lets you reroll the first 1 on AtC. Another reason you want to AtC before using a Bribe. |
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Endrophil
Joined: Nov 16, 2015
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  Posted:
Sep 01, 2022 - 15:46 |
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But AtC is still a TO and bribe is not. |
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Lyracian
Joined: Oct 29, 2015
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  Posted:
Sep 01, 2022 - 16:44 |
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As far as I can tell you can attempt to Argue either before or after* the bribe (but not both). Like many points in the rule book it is still open to interpretation.
*within the existing restrictions. |
_________________ Nuffle wills it.
Lyracian. |
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Java
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Joined: Jan 27, 2018
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  Posted:
Sep 01, 2022 - 16:47 |
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is the open question: "do I still turnover if I fail the AtC roll but pass the bribe roll?"
or is it something else?
also, has it been submitted? |
_________________ Vlad Von Carstein's door-to-door evangelist |
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sebco
Joined: Feb 14, 2005
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  Posted:
Sep 02, 2022 - 14:03 |
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In my opinion, in BB 2020 this is
1- Argue the Call
2- Bribe
You can't modify that order.
As said by BardoHBD and Dabassman, bribe inducement description explicitely (page 91) states :"A single bribe may be used AFTER an attempt to Argue the Call has been made".
Then, concerning TurnOver.
Yes, a succeeded Bribe roll avoids TurnOver whereas a succeeded Argue The Call roll avoids sending-off but not TurnOver.
That said, page 23 of BB 2020 rulebook, this is written that "should a TurnOver occur, any dice rolls that must be made as a result of the event that caused it are made immediatly, after which the current player activation ends."
In my opinion, if you Argue The Call first and obtain a "I don't care" result, it's not an immediat "stop all rolls" TurnOver, you still can use your Bribe before turn really ends. If that was not the case, the sentence "A single bribe may be used AFTER an attempt to Argue the Call has been made" page 91 of BB 2020 rulebook would be complete non sense.
Java wrote: | is the open question: "do I still turnover if I fail the AtC roll but pass the bribe roll?"
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In my opinion, the answer is clearly "no". Bribe is successful so no TurnOver (this is only still a TurnOver when Argue the Call succeeds).
The question seemed to be "is there a mandatory order to bribe / argue the call" and order is 1- Argue the Call 2- Bribe while coaches said it was 1- Bribe and 2- Argue the Call in the client (maybe it's no more the case now, I have to admit I didn't check). |
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Last edited by sebco on %b %02, %2022 - %15:%Sep; edited 2 times in total |
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