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Lokragen



Joined: Aug 20, 2015

Post   Posted: Sep 29, 2022 - 15:13 Reply with quote Back to top

do we know if we can use hit and run on a blitz?
Kinks



Joined: Feb 28, 2007

Post   Posted: Sep 29, 2022 - 15:39 Reply with quote Back to top

Lokragen wrote:
do we know if we can use hit and run on a blitz?

No, we don't know.

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Kinks



Joined: Feb 28, 2007

Post   Posted: Sep 29, 2022 - 16:12 Reply with quote Back to top

Mnemon wrote:
Yes - but then, always remember that teams are designed for tabeltop, and small, private leagues primarily.

I'm not sure I agree with that. From the tiers I feel GW are more focused on TV 1150 resurrection style tournaments. In that format Lizards are Tier 1. In a league format where you have to actually earn SPPs on your Sauruses and if they get injured you get a stunty loner next match they are tier 2.

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Nelphine



Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Post   Posted: Sep 29, 2022 - 17:03 Reply with quote Back to top

right, but you won't suffer 40 or 50 blocks; as mentioned, you dodge away better than a rookie elf against non tackle. amazons are very good at controlling the pace of the bashing match, and so, usually, they will suffer quite a bit lower total blocks than an av9+ team
Garion26



Joined: Nov 28, 2021

Post   Posted: Sep 29, 2022 - 18:28 Reply with quote Back to top

kozak wrote:
Kondor wrote:
I am just annoyed that on a team with one positional named a blitzer and another named a blocker, neither come with block. They should have named the positionals something besides blockers and blitzers.


Agree, this is non-sense.


Slann!
https://fumbbl.com/help:BB20SlannSetUp

As noted most Blockers aside from dwarf/chaos dwarf flavors don't have block.
PirateRob



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Sep 29, 2022 - 20:23 Reply with quote Back to top

The fact that blockers do not come with block is one of those great mysteries of the universe.
Mnemon



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Sep 29, 2022 - 21:40 Reply with quote Back to top

Nelphine wrote:
right, but you won't suffer 40 or 50 blocks; as mentioned, you dodge away better than a rookie elf against non tackle. amazons are very good at controlling the pace of the bashing match, and so, usually, they will suffer quite a bit lower total blocks than an av9+ team


Mhm. Rookie elves, at least mine, fall over a lot when trying to dodge Smile.
Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Post   Posted: Sep 29, 2022 - 22:45 Reply with quote Back to top

PirateRob wrote:
The fact that blockers do not come with block is one of those great mysteries of the universe.


Not really, Block nomenclature is from American football. Block the skill is not blocking in American football terms. Its more akin to tackling.

Very few Blockers have Block.

St 4 Dodge is huge though. Give them Block and stand firm and you have game winners there.

That said.... In this silly rules set the best roster is 11 Linemen and morg

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Kondor



Joined: Apr 04, 2008

Post   Posted: Sep 30, 2022 - 11:45 Reply with quote Back to top

Garion wrote:
PirateRob wrote:
The fact that blockers do not come with block is one of those great mysteries of the universe.


Not really, Block nomenclature is from American football. Block the skill is not blocking in American football terms. Its more akin to tackling.

Very few Blockers have Block.

St 4 Dodge is huge though. Give them Block and stand firm and you have game winners there.

That said.... In this silly rules set the best roster is 11 Linemen and morg


Almost. I think I would take either one S4 player or the Thrower to have my ball carrier and then take Morg.
Java



Joined: Jan 27, 2018

Post   Posted: Sep 30, 2022 - 12:12 Reply with quote Back to top

There's a reasonable amount of data suggesting that Morg Star builds only work consistently when in combination with low cost linemen AND a speedster baller star

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C0ddlefish



Joined: Sep 17, 2019

Post   Posted: Sep 30, 2022 - 12:33 Reply with quote Back to top

I tried Morg for the first time yesterday Vs Humans. 13 Blocks, 0 CAS, 1 KO. Similarity Deeproot Vs Khemri 14 Blocks 1 CAS, 0 KO.

Scientific proof MB+2 is a lie!
Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Post   Posted: Sep 30, 2022 - 12:38 Reply with quote Back to top

Java wrote:
There's a reasonable amount of data suggesting that Morg Star builds only work consistently when in combination with low cost linemen AND a speedster baller star


sure fast teams (or a team with 1 very fast player, we know the culprits...) are always the best but mass dodge and a st6 mb2+ player is still pretty broken at 1000TV against a large number of teams.

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Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Post   Posted: Sep 30, 2022 - 12:40 Reply with quote Back to top

Kondor wrote:
Garion wrote:
PirateRob wrote:
The fact that blockers do not come with block is one of those great mysteries of the universe.


Not really, Block nomenclature is from American football. Block the skill is not blocking in American football terms. Its more akin to tackling.

Very few Blockers have Block.

St 4 Dodge is huge though. Give them Block and stand firm and you have game winners there.

That said.... In this silly rules set the best roster is 11 Linemen and morg


Almost. I think I would take either one S4 player or the Thrower to have my ball carrier and then take Morg.


A thrower, dont see the value. Take a blitzer so you have a fast player to carry the ball. If you want positionals at all.

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Garion26



Joined: Nov 28, 2021

Post   Posted: Sep 30, 2022 - 17:55 Reply with quote Back to top

Garion wrote:

That said.... In this silly rules set the best roster is 11 Linemen and morg


In all fairness in the Ulthuan Invitational Morg teams lost more often then they won.
https://fumbbl.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=32346&start=135

See previous pages for the raw data.

FUMBBL C tournaments allow for fairly big teams and that impacts our results vs NAF data. NAF tournament data is for fairly low TV usually with fixed limitations on skills. Taking a star in that environment allows more TV to be concentrated in one place on the pitch then you can under NAF rules that limit you to 1-2 skills on 4-8 players.

Would you take the 11 linemen+morg OR 11 linemen +380K of skills (or some variation of skill positions + less skills)
Nelphine



Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Post   Posted: Sep 30, 2022 - 18:32 Reply with quote Back to top

to put the comparison in mind, you are talking about 240k of strength + the equivalent of the old clawpomb (60k), and due to reliable 3d blocks, you are almost as good as tackle (20k) plus block (20k) + AV +AV (20k)

so yeah, arguably morg IS 380k worth of skills all stacked on the same player. that's why he's so good. you would absolutely build, say, a chaos beastman with that exact skillset, but instead anyone can get him.

however, just like old clawpombers, ONE simply isn't enough to be reliable. so he's high variance. and so, old clawpombers would drop all the bonus strength, and instead replace it with more clawpombers. but since you can't, morg is the best option you have.
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