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koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Nov 25, 2022 - 20:08 Reply with quote Back to top

It is called the "Competitive" division.

The home of "proper" blood bowl is the [L]eague division. Twisted Evil

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JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Post   Posted: Nov 25, 2022 - 22:31 Reply with quote Back to top

Mnemon wrote:
I think / feel that assumption is a mistake. Some people's personality is ruthlessly competitive - one of the many reasons why I think a public CR is a mistake. Those people can live out their power need in a community that becomes ever more about competitivieness and efficency. And they will sell their vision as the one true truth. I feel FUMBBL - and the Bloodbowl rules in general - are drifting that way.


We've had MattD around for years and years, and your fears just haven't come to pass: a few coaches play that way, but the hyper-competitive "only one way" attitude isn't catching on. Of much more concern to you should be the community skill creep: we're all getting better, every year. It's not driven by hyper-competitive coaches trying to be the best there ever was, but by moderately competitive coaches trying to be a little better than they were before.

And the answer to that is not to collectively agree not to improve, that's silly. The answer is to bring newbies along so that before too many games they've caught up to the state of the art and can grow with the rest of us. One way to do this is to dive into disparate aspects of theory, in the hopes that someone will come along later and turn it into a new meta: theorybowl has the advantage that if you want to keep up, you have a framework for doing just that. It gives us the opportunity to boil our experiences down into something usable and tangible, and in that way the game grows and develops, without ever becoming inaccessible.

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koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Nov 25, 2022 - 22:53 Reply with quote Back to top

Are we talking about "skeptical" people?

The majority of people are not going to like blood bowl. Even fewer are going to like competitive blood bowl.

I'm not talking about MattDakka. I'm talking about what seems from the chat to be the majority of coaches in Competitive including you. Smile
Including me if I had the time to play.

I don't really see how this is going to be attractive to the ordinary person. Even if they do like RPGs & MTG.

It feels as though you are trying to make the proverbial silk purse from a pigs ear.

I'd say, teach them the fun first. The blood bowl spirit. If they enjoy that, see if they have the interest to improve and join the league.

Sevens & dungeon bowl seems like a better fit to me. Four handed, 2v2 dungeon bowl if collaboration is so important.

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JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Post   Posted: Nov 25, 2022 - 22:57 Reply with quote Back to top

Well, yes, nominally we're talking about a specific person who's a hardcore gamer and has expressed both interest and trepidation.

But really we're talking about different ways to look at the same thing. Offering up other games, even variants, is not helpful to the real objective, seeing Blood Bowl in new ways.

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Last edited by JackassRampant on Nov 25, 2022 - 23:02; edited 1 time in total
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Nov 25, 2022 - 23:02 Reply with quote Back to top

Why trepidation?

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JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Post   Posted: Nov 25, 2022 - 23:04 Reply with quote Back to top

She's got football-associated trauma. But she can't stop watching the game and is picking it up vicariously, so kinda mixed signals. Forget about that, though: if she's not interested, the question still stands. This is just one exemplar: the real goal is a more perfect understanding of the possibilities and limitations of Blood Bowl, not whether one coach is playing.

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Focus not on things you can't control, like bad dice, but instead on things under your power, like how far you flip the table.
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Nov 25, 2022 - 23:25 Reply with quote Back to top

Seeing as you can do whatever you want, I don't really see the limitations. That is a huge part of what makes blood bowl great.

If you mean, while sticking within the current set of rules, I probably won't be much use to you. Twisted Evil

If competitiveness is a requirement, then that will lose some people too.

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Mnemon



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Nov 26, 2022 - 00:47 Reply with quote Back to top

JackassRampant wrote:
We've had MattD around for years and years, and your fears just haven't come to pass: a few coaches play that way, but the hyper-competitive "only one way" attitude isn't catching on.


Err, yes, it is. See all the posts above where I am trying to point that out. [I wasn't talking about MattD specifically. He's not the only one focusing on CR too much. It's part of human nature - if we can measure us against someting arbitrary, we ... kinda tend to.]

People play differently now than they used to, and again, in a drastically different way. I thought we already agreed that the game is better if there are a large variety of different philosophies.
JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Post   Posted: Nov 26, 2022 - 01:34 Reply with quote Back to top

The game is better if there are a large number of philosophies, but those philosophies have to work or they won't get used much. I simply don't see your concern that the game is becoming more homogeneous: the new rules encourage higher-variance play, what with money for touchdowns, multiple rerolls per turn, and really good secret weapons that you want to nix by scoring. It may be that the community hasn't caught up to that yet, but that's fine, the game will continue to evolve and our play along with it. My goal here is to speculate on how the evolving world of gamers might interact with the game as it is now, how the changes might make for a new mindset.

But there's no virtue in pining for the days when we were less savvy: that's over, it's time for new perspectives.

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koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Nov 26, 2022 - 03:06 Reply with quote Back to top

It's not about being less savvy. It is about a different mindset that is no longer as prevalent.

That is the way of the world. Of too many good people and things we can say that we won't see their like again.

But we can keep the memories alive as long as we can.

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Nelphine



Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Post   Posted: Nov 26, 2022 - 05:16 Reply with quote Back to top

ALL MENS LOS ROFLSHIRTCOPTER
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Nov 26, 2022 - 11:28 Reply with quote Back to top

Ah, nostalgia. Mr. Green

Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes

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JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Post   Posted: Nov 26, 2022 - 17:12 Reply with quote Back to top

We can also come up with new perspectives so the game continues to evolve. If, as they say, the past is another country where they do things differently, then so is the future.

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Focus not on things you can't control, like bad dice, but instead on things under your power, like how far you flip the table.
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Nov 26, 2022 - 17:30 Reply with quote Back to top

JackassRampant wrote:
We can also come up with new perspectives so the game continues to evolve. If, as they say, the past is another country where they do things differently, then so is the future.


Indeed. You can. Wink

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