RDaneel
Joined: Feb 24, 2023
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  Posted:
Oct 28, 2023 - 10:06 |
 
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Unfortunately for me, this first major I managed to ruin it with a catastrophic mistake. During the deployment before the kick off I was overthinking and deployed as if I had to kick, leaving my best catcher MA9 Blodge SS in the reserves and deploy the team consequently in kicking mode.
Immediatly 1 sec after kick off I realized the disaster I had made: MY OPPONENT was in kicking mode!
Unfortunately the kick off throw had already been made.No possibility to get back.
Usually I never concede, and also is forbidden in tournament but also i did not want (could not)play as I had planned because without the star-catcher the strategy changed completely and I did not want to expose the team. So for after some escaping drives, I positioned team in static mode and then let the clock run out, never re-raising players who were being hit
I played the 1st drive in such a way as to hasten the end of the first half, even if I went down 1-0 in my offence drive I cared little : I wanted to be able to get to the second half with the whole team full and play all the possibilities at the ast turn 8 hoping in something... but that was not the case.
At the end second drive was not so aggressive, it was not so easy to generate harm vs a team with 7 big guy and one fanatic and 4 reroll... (also in my simulations this game ended in most of the case in bad way for the human, a draw in 2 drive is definitively possible the price to pay is terrible in terms of removals)
I could have played more aggressively it is true, but it was a strategic choice however wrong it is I did not want to put my players close to blocking /CAS risk.
Spectators didn't like it and I got a lot of "boooh" but honestly the way I decide to carry on a game with a negative bias and the tactical choices to preserve my team is my business.
One cannot expect a coach, already outnumbered in terms of experience, who moreover give this advantage to his opponent (by own fault) then to play a competitive major tournament with a smile on his face. We are not in a league (if we were in a league I think we would have definitely restarted the game) but in a competitive tournament so any means is good to win and if your opponent makes a stupid mistake you thank and cash in. But you cannot then expect he is playin "in the smiling, cheerful spirit."
If then there is no cinema and entertainment I feel sorry for the spectators but please before booh think and have some empathy gentlemen...
There remains the bitterness in my mouth for a complicated match for which I had prepared for a few days and my second major in my life totally ruined. I won't hide from you that I slept badly this night re-thinking to this match.
(just the test mode perhaps misled me, I tried this match several times in test-mode and it often happened that I had to kick and by a mental reflex when we started playing I deployed in this way not realizing that it was not so. You may think I am a fool and so I certainly am but the human brain plays tricks)
Anyway...congratulations to my opponent who did not fall into the trap of "dead rags" did not tried to come and destroy my team or drawing repeated fouls risking ejections, and simply played flat by caging and moving forward . He is much stronger than me and most likely would have won even without the help of my stupidity although - I think - he too would have preferred to play a different game.
thank you all for your attention and hope to see you soon in other tournaments |
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Thoriin
Joined: Apr 15, 2011
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| Posted:
Oct 28, 2023 - 11:36 |
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So you're saying that you can't play an offensive drive without a freak catcher ?
You could have fielded him and referee send him off on turn 0, that would be worse , would you have brood like that ?
By all means, finishing you drive on 0-0 maintains a hope, 0-1 against a decent coach, if Nuffle doesn't take the wheel for you , it's game over. With 11 guys and the ball for you, are you sure you could not manage at least to hold a draw at halftime ?
Another subject, i watched the orc derby between Bloodfeast and Nelphine as friday night live , great excitement , well done guys  |
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MerryZ
Joined: Nov 28, 2005
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Oct 28, 2023 - 12:38 |
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If you dont put player on pitch, get pitch invasion that get 3 your players stunned you dont ask restart. Not on tournaments, leagues, box, tinder or on table. Maybe next time check your setup before saying ready.
Luv.
Merreh |
_________________
Kaptain Awasoam, Dicer of All Men and Women and Children and Puppies. |
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RDaneel
Joined: Feb 24, 2023
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| Posted:
Oct 28, 2023 - 13:54 |
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@Thorin:
not at all.. I started in disastrous mode and the catcher in the reserve was just the cherry on the cake (all the set up was wrong as i told)
I definitely plaied the first drive in a very angry state non-rational way.
So "ne remuer le couteau dans la pleie stp  "
It has taken some turns to me to cooldown and then i decided at the end to give priority to save resources in spite entering in a blodly fight waiting 2nd drive as 1st drive was black out for me I wanted to end as soon as possible.
Indeed I must also thank my opponent who maintained a cordial tone in the chat indeed he was able to show some empathy as well and this contributed to cooldown my feelings so i was able to play a not totally disastrous second drive... thinking to some not stupid movements but also include some tactical choiches.
@Merryz
Thank you Mr. Professor for the enlightening lecture. Lesson learned. |
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MerryZ
Joined: Nov 28, 2005
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| Posted:
Oct 28, 2023 - 14:22 |
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Id rather be Doctor Professor than Mister Professor. |
_________________
Kaptain Awasoam, Dicer of All Men and Women and Children and Puppies. |
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RDaneel
Joined: Feb 24, 2023
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| Posted:
Oct 28, 2023 - 15:16 |
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| MerryZ wrote: | | Id rather be Doctor Professor than Mister Professor. |
PhD Doctor-Doctor Professor if you prefer |
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Nelphine
Joined: Apr 01, 2011
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| Posted:
Oct 28, 2023 - 15:30 |
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| Thoriin wrote: | | i watched the orc derby between Bloodfeast and Nelphine as friday night live , great excitement , well done guys |
DEATH TO ALL ORCS!
Are you not ENTERTAINED? |
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ben_awesome
Joined: May 11, 2016
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| Posted:
Oct 28, 2023 - 15:31 |
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No, you don't kill them fast enough. |
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MerryZ
Joined: Nov 28, 2005
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| Posted:
Oct 28, 2023 - 17:33 |
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Your orcs didnt commit suicide in the end, sadly. |
_________________
Kaptain Awasoam, Dicer of All Men and Women and Children and Puppies. |
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happygrue
Joined: Oct 15, 2010
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| Posted:
Oct 28, 2023 - 17:41 |
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| RDaneel wrote: | There remains the bitterness in my mouth for a complicated match for which I had prepared for a few days and my second major in my life totally ruined. I won't hide from you that I slept badly this night re-thinking to this match.
(just the test mode perhaps misled me, I tried this match several times in test-mode and it often happened that I had to kick and by a mental reflex when we started playing I deployed in this way not realizing that it was not so. You may think I am a fool and so I certainly am but the human brain plays tricks) |
It might have been because I won the coin toss but opted to kick, brains are fickle things, and perhaps you imagined that since I won the toss you would be kicking and just forgot to check after that?
On the point of what happens, the line I would always in 100% of cases follow is before and after kickoff. Inducement mis-click? Sure, reset the match. I've been on both sides of that in numerous games, and happily allow the reset. Once kickoff is rolled, then we're in a situation where teams have gained or lost an advantage and asking to reset the match risks asking your opponent to give up an advantage to help you out, which seems an unsporting thing to do in a competitive setting generally. Consider: if the kickoff result had been for Varag to get thrown out by the ref. Would you have still asked for a reset? What if you ask for a reset and then the result of the reset is exactly that?
Before dice are rolled, it's easy to fix such things. Afterward, sometimes allowances can be made. If you had asked for, say a few minutes to compose yourself after getting frustrated? Sure. Or a turn to move around and restore your setup where neither of us blitz or block, and then starting the game "the next turn"? Sure, if it was important to you.
What actually happened, is that you clicked end turn without moving a single player, so I took a turn, and the game didn't start for real until after that. That may have gave me more of an advantage than anything on the setup side of things. What if you had simply played a real first turn? How might the game have been different?
We're playing a tournament match and I don't know what your intentions are. In fact, they changed several times in what you're outlining as an attempt to lure me into a trap. By pretending to give up (indeed telling me you were going to concede the match) and then flipping back into a competitive mode, this becomes "part of the game".
| RDaneel wrote: | | Anyway...congratulations to my opponent who did not fall into the trap of "dead rags" did not tried to come and destroy my team or drawing repeated fouls risking ejections, and simply played flat by caging and moving forward . He is much stronger than me and most likely would have won even without the help of my stupidity although - I think - he too would have preferred to play a different game. |
Indeed, I would have liked to play a different game. It was an unfortunate situation, and I can understand your frustration. I've never actually won a major despite quite a few years of attempts. I have plenty of "reasons" why, but I think we're at our best when we can remember that this is a game and different players are going to have different opinions of what is sporting. If you recall one of our previous matches, I believe I was getting booed by fans for not timing you out while my team was being shredded. So what is sporting is a matter of perspective, and I hope you don't remain frustrated about this particular situation. I suggest trying to imagine the situation as a learning experience - double-checking those setups at the start of a game is a great thing to remember, and I bet it will be a lot easier to avoid this mistake in the future!
Cheers for the match. See you next time! |
_________________
Come join us in #metabox, the Discord channel for HLP, ARR, and E.L.F. in the box!
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RDaneel
Joined: Feb 24, 2023
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| Posted:
Oct 28, 2023 - 19:35 |
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| happygrue wrote: |
It might have been because I won the coin toss but opted to kick, brains are fickle things, and perhaps you imagined that since I won the toss you would be kicking and just forgot to check after that?
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In fact even this ... Usually whoever wins the coin toss decides to get .... but another source of confusion is that usually the kicker doesn't deploy all the players on the LoS. But since you had 6 big guys the fanatic and Varag you certainly weren't afraid of a tin Ogre. That also contributed to the confusion. I was convinced until a second before I pressed "end" that I was kicking.
The perfect storm (in my brain!)
| happygrue wrote: |
On the point of what happens, the line I would always in 100% of cases follow is before and after kickoff. Inducement mis-click? Sure, reset the match. I've been on both sides of that in numerous games, and happily allow the reset. Once kickoff is rolled, then we're in a situation where teams have gained or lost an advantage and asking to reset the match risks asking your opponent to give up an advantage to help you out, which seems an unsporting thing to do in a competitive setting generally. Consider: if the kickoff result had been for Varag to get thrown out by the ref. Would you have still asked for a reset? What if you ask for a reset and then the result of the reset is exactly that?
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Yes I thought about it later. One way to solve this problem would have been to ask an admin to reset the game until a kick off "like"..... we would repeat the kick off several times but we risked the night and also the fact that you had little time available made it impractical.
To be honest I don't know if there is a technical way to avoid these stupid things in future (a part pay attention of course) but it would certainly benefit fumbbl.
| happygrue wrote: |
If you had asked for, say a few minutes to compose yourself after getting frustrated? Sure. Or a turn to move around and restore your setup where neither of us blitz or block, and then starting the game "the next turn"? Sure, if it was important to you.
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Believe me to calm down it took me the night  Sometimes the adrenaline rush can take hours to go away that's why I try to avoid playing too late (although it happens to me and then I sleep terrible even if I win). Then I knew that you were playing during the day and didn't have that much time, in sum we had already wasted time asking in Discord for some admi's intervention... amen...
| happygrue wrote: |
What actually happened, is that you clicked end turn without moving a single player, so I took a turn, and the game didn't start for real until after that. That may have gave me more of an advantage than anything on the setup side of things. What if you had simply played a real first turn? How might the game have been different?
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maybe but i was not much rational in these moment. Could be different maybe if i have moved back my player and dodge the LoS... anyway... difficult to make a rational analysis for something was not rational at least in the 1st half
| happygrue wrote: |
We're playing a tournament match and I don't know what your intentions are. In fact, they changed several times in what you're outlining as an attempt to lure me into a trap. By pretending to give up (indeed telling me you were going to concede the match) and then flipping back into a competitive mode, this becomes "part of the game".
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In a moment of deep despondency is "okay gg: this is the end ... i will concede... " how many times in the chat people writes such things "gg" as early as the second round after a snake ... Then clearly I had to come to terms with the fact that I was having a tournament match and that I couldn't leave by slamming the door , and I must say that I thank you for keeping a cordial tone if I had conceded now I would have gotten a ban and a wash from the admins... Although I repeat, we are human beings we are not machines and I had been preparing for days on this game. To see it ruined by insanity on turn zero was devastating. Only if you see it in this light can you understand the reaction I had.
| happygrue wrote: | | RDaneel wrote: | | Anyway...congratulations to my opponent who did not fall into the trap of "dead rags" did not tried to come and destroy my team or drawing repeated fouls risking ejections, and simply played flat by caging and moving forward . He is much stronger than me and most likely would have won even without the help of my stupidity although - I think - he too would have preferred to play a different game. |
Indeed, I would have liked to play a different game. It was an unfortunate situation, and I can understand your frustration. I've never actually won a major despite quite a few years of attempts. I have plenty of "reasons" why, but I think we're at our best when we can remember that this is a game and different players are going to have different opinions of what is sporting. If you recall one of our previous matches, I believe I was getting booed by fans for not timing you out while my team was being shredded. So what is sporting is a matter of perspective, and I hope you don't remain frustrated about this particular situation. I suggest trying to imagine the situation as a learning experience - double-checking those setups at the start of a game is a great thing to remember, and I bet it will be a lot easier to avoid this mistake in the future!
Cheers for the match. See you next time! |
On the timeout everyone knows what i think i will not reopen hundreds of pages but if someon booed you in that game for not having timeout me personally should be ashamed (a small time budget should be allowed for everybody once per match as people know my thinking). You have been a gentleman in this unlucky match where you did not timeout me , and in my opinion the stronger a player is and behaves kindly, the more credit he gets. You did well and for that you have my deepest esteem :You didn't deserve to lose it I got lucky (I even wrote it in the comments because I am very critical of myself it's the only way I can improve).
That said the sense of my frustration with these thread aside from simply sharing an unfortunate moment
on the technical inability to solve these misclick problems. You behaved perfectly in fact...you were even too patient while I was freaking out in the chat.
This game can generate a lot of nervousness, matches last an hour is not easy....
anyway surely it will be the first and last time I will do such errors....
ciao |
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Gridironman
Joined: Mar 18, 2022
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| Posted:
Oct 29, 2023 - 01:46 |
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I watched that replay, it was unsportsmanlike behavior, BUT as individuals, if we forthrightly apologize whether it is meant or not at the time it provides us room to think about not behaving that way in the future and 3-5 months into the future everyone who has a sense of interpersonal charity will have forgiven you or even more likely have forgotten what was unsporting about your behavior. I kind of needed to see how bad it was if I was going to finally re-devote time to uploading FUMBBL matches again. I will make a note to list that match as a forfeit because it is a terrible watch without much tension besides a headache. |
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An Amorican Nuffler that bashed in his youth. |
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Nelphine
Joined: Apr 01, 2011
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| Posted:
Oct 29, 2023 - 01:56 |
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Honestly, I'd recommend only casting the later rounds. The first round with 63 games feels like it will be unmanageable. Even 32 in the second round is a very large volume. If you do the later rounds, and then maybe half a dozen round 1 or 2 games from semifinalists or something? |
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Gridironman
Joined: Mar 18, 2022
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| Posted:
Oct 29, 2023 - 05:50 |
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A knockout is much easier than cross referencing a living google sheet, because I do not need to research what team has however many points forensically. If I am a week or two later than the finale I do not mind. We will see though. |
_________________
An Amorican Nuffler that bashed in his youth. |
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RDaneel
Joined: Feb 24, 2023
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| Posted:
Oct 29, 2023 - 10:05 |
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| Gridironman wrote: | | I watched that replay, it was unsportsmanlike behavior, BUT as individuals, if we forthrightly apologize whether it is meant or not at the time it provides us room to think about not behaving that way in the future and 3-5 months into the future everyone who has a sense of interpersonal charity will have forgiven you or even more likely have forgotten what was unsporting about your behavior. I kind of needed to see how bad it was if I was going to finally re-devote time to uploading FUMBBL matches again. I will make a note to list that match as a forfeit because it is a terrible watch without much tension besides a headache. |
Sorry mate but I don't agree with considering the whole match a forfeit. the first half I agree was a moment of general disbandment. I didn't know what to do, I didn't want to risk the team, I was sure I couldn't play my half properly and I didn't want to turn the game into a further disaster (i.e. go into the second half with half the team destroyed). I was also hoping for some bone heads and/or for happygrue to relax while I calmed down and tried to figure it out. So i moved forward i think 5 consecutive turns.. keeping the ball and not raising players but to be hoenst i did not have a strategic plan in my mind as it was really a disbanding phase (you can call unsportmanlike... which i agree , but i prefer the word 'collective team disbandment' ).
The second half was played , I never passed the turn but i started back waiting my chance (also in case of miracles of draw hoping in the extra time): I didn't play to death but waited for the right moment with the catcher forward ready to catch something even though my trower unfortunately stayed out. If we want to say that the first half was not played with the 'spirit' of a tournament I agree with you. But from here to say that we consider the whole game as a forfeit in my opinion is too much.
The aim of this thread was precisely to explain the psychological reasons for a certain behaviors (and a sort of public outing/apologise) but also that expeciallu in the second half there was some strategy (even if weak)behind the game. Those who forfeit concede or pass all the turns not just 4 or 5 as I did only in the first half in a rage moment who stand for 10 minutes...
But I agree with you this will pass to the FUMBBL cup story as one of the less flighted match in the story maybe and I am sorry it was played by me. 
The thing that drives me crazy is the misclick of accidents unrelated to the game or the dice as a silliness like this (for which I am solely responsible, let me be clear). I have to learn to go 'brb' when these things happen, leave for 15 minutes and then afterwards with a cool head start the game again... even if the nervousness stays with me for hours
Perhaps a word about me, however, should be said. I never concede whatever i can say in a rage moment in the chat (I have never conceded until now) and I never complain about the dice even for terrible matches. In general I tend to play even when it tells me bad bad and I stay with one player on the field. Especially in competitive games (look at this one for example with only one player left and 10 out I "almost" almost drew https://fumbbl.com/p/match?id=4491952)
I spit in my face when i do errors or accident like this crazy things happen and whip myself for my mistakes which, I am perhaps one of the most self-critical people in existence: when I lose 100% I blame myself and I don't consider luck an aspect of this game (although it is there but for me you don't win by luck even with the dice... on average)....
I'd like to make this clarification for those who may think I'm someone who 'concedes easy' or a loser loner
Ah ... last but not least: I am also someone who is able to say publicly: I was an idiot, I'm sorry.
ciao! |
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