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2022-09-15 22:14:42
10 votes, rating 4.8
10 votes, rating 4.8
Good Luck, Father Bob
As far as I know, nobody has yet won a FUMBBL tournament with Black Orcs, or Khorne, or Imperial Nobility. Ok, I wrote this back in August, the lead is slightly outdated, sue me!
Khorne are a wacky bunch, as turnover-prone as any other true Chaos team, maybe even more, and yet after the first few hard matches, they can become pretty decent. The frenzy can be mitigated by Block and Guard, and nothing looks particularly off with the costs.
Imperials on the contrary are tricky because you're basically giving away ~100TV in overpriced everything, but still you can develop them to a pretty decent standard, and they can dominate the pitch if the stars are right. One day you might even stop seething at the idea of a Human Blitzer paying 20k for the privilege of starting with Catch.
What about Black Orcs? Not particularly good at anything, really. And there isn't even an excuse from the costs' point of view. It's just that their selection of players is really poor, and their average speed is the lowest in the ruleset, marginally lower than even Dwarves. Why, you thought I would go through this many paragraphs without a disparaging remark about the dreaded steel bins? Well, think again. Not that I have any deep seated prejudice.
What do they have? 6-7 mildly unreliable and fairly slow blockers, and 5-6 expensive goblins. What do they lack? Oh boy. Go on, I hear you think.
They lack a reliable carrier, until one of the goblins racks up enough stats and secondaries to the point that he's unrecognisable.
They lack a sweeper/sacker, and that's sorely need on a team that is so vulnerable to the classic potato running through a hole in your line of seven lumbering numpties. What are you gonna do, run back THREE goblins to get a chance at a 2d hit on a blodger? Your goblins are SMALL and their carrier is FAR AWAY!
Most of all, they lack a plan B. Fail the critical pickup, your drive is probably done for. If you let the opponent through, you're going to have to focus on damage, because there's little chance of catching up. Lose a critical player early, and second half is uphill already. They can be good though, people tell me, and I don't want to say that I don't believe it, but...
Tussock swears by them. Smallman's running them for BBT with a positive record. You've seen Malmir's little monster linked above. My own tabletop team is doing well in our local league, currently 3-1-0. And yet. A fitting random comment was that they seem to be really good against opponents who aren't very good, which is likely true of any team, really, and also very dismissive of anyone who has lost to them. Not very nice, is it!
All things considered, they seem to need a lot of buildup and, for lack of a better word, farming. As a lot of coaches like their teams to be decent right out of the box, farming is not everyone's cup of tea, some don't really get it.
What's the development path for them? How do you deal with the lack of ballers, sweepers and plan B?
I'm gonna try and find out, in the meantime, please let me know your thoughts down below.
Khorne are a wacky bunch, as turnover-prone as any other true Chaos team, maybe even more, and yet after the first few hard matches, they can become pretty decent. The frenzy can be mitigated by Block and Guard, and nothing looks particularly off with the costs.
Imperials on the contrary are tricky because you're basically giving away ~100TV in overpriced everything, but still you can develop them to a pretty decent standard, and they can dominate the pitch if the stars are right. One day you might even stop seething at the idea of a Human Blitzer paying 20k for the privilege of starting with Catch.
What about Black Orcs? Not particularly good at anything, really. And there isn't even an excuse from the costs' point of view. It's just that their selection of players is really poor, and their average speed is the lowest in the ruleset, marginally lower than even Dwarves. Why, you thought I would go through this many paragraphs without a disparaging remark about the dreaded steel bins? Well, think again. Not that I have any deep seated prejudice.
What do they have? 6-7 mildly unreliable and fairly slow blockers, and 5-6 expensive goblins. What do they lack? Oh boy. Go on, I hear you think.
They lack a reliable carrier, until one of the goblins racks up enough stats and secondaries to the point that he's unrecognisable.
They lack a sweeper/sacker, and that's sorely need on a team that is so vulnerable to the classic potato running through a hole in your line of seven lumbering numpties. What are you gonna do, run back THREE goblins to get a chance at a 2d hit on a blodger? Your goblins are SMALL and their carrier is FAR AWAY!
Most of all, they lack a plan B. Fail the critical pickup, your drive is probably done for. If you let the opponent through, you're going to have to focus on damage, because there's little chance of catching up. Lose a critical player early, and second half is uphill already. They can be good though, people tell me, and I don't want to say that I don't believe it, but...
Tussock swears by them. Smallman's running them for BBT with a positive record. You've seen Malmir's little monster linked above. My own tabletop team is doing well in our local league, currently 3-1-0. And yet. A fitting random comment was that they seem to be really good against opponents who aren't very good, which is likely true of any team, really, and also very dismissive of anyone who has lost to them. Not very nice, is it!
All things considered, they seem to need a lot of buildup and, for lack of a better word, farming. As a lot of coaches like their teams to be decent right out of the box, farming is not everyone's cup of tea, some don't really get it.
What's the development path for them? How do you deal with the lack of ballers, sweepers and plan B?
I'm gonna try and find out, in the meantime, please let me know your thoughts down below.
Comments
Posted by kozak on 2022-09-15 23:05:45
Play the Black orks but only take the troll and the goblins. Profits
Posted by Storr on 2022-09-16 00:22:38
Yep, get Morg
Posted by Malmir on 2022-09-16 07:39:03
I tried to build mine up 'properly' and took them to the ulthuan where they did okay. They went out earlier than I would have liked but, if memory serves, we were a bit unlucky in the game we lost. Generally, we were okay against other average sides but when we came up against a proper tier 1 team (bash or elf), with a good coach, it was a real struggle. Fun team to play as though.
Posted by MerryZ on 2022-09-16 08:02:17
Was this blog just about you winning smack with imperials ;p ?
Grats tho ;)
I give you.
6/6
Grats tho ;)
I give you.
6/6
Posted by DaCoach on 2022-09-16 18:36:16
Spot on MerryZ
But else an OK read
But else an OK read
Posted by Java on 2022-09-16 21:57:23
I did write this at the end of August, but held out on posting it until Secret Resurrection started, because all my posts would have to be about it :D
You're too kind guys, this was mostly just a pretext to go through a bunch of Father Ted videos. Storr probably has the right call.
You're too kind guys, this was mostly just a pretext to go through a bunch of Father Ted videos. Storr probably has the right call.
Posted by BeanBelly on 2022-09-17 16:10:42
A good read, thanks Java. My brief try of B'lorc I couldn't come to terms with the slow speed and turnovers. I will try again soon.
I'd like to add that I did Kill Malmir's little monster shortly before the UI, but the apotho saved it..
He does hide it really well to prevent blitzes and fouls. I only got to it because I had a disgusting Legend UW Gutter Runner.
I'd like to add that I did Kill Malmir's little monster shortly before the UI, but the apotho saved it..
He does hide it really well to prevent blitzes and fouls. I only got to it because I had a disgusting Legend UW Gutter Runner.
Posted by tussock on 2022-09-19 09:17:11
Black Orcs are a 1-0 or 2-1 team, or if the opp makes errors, 2-0.
This means you force the score, and if they don't score, you stop them.
To force the score with MA 4 players, you send them up a wing, either wing is fine.
Most of your team then runs diagonally backward, not that you can cut them off yet, but you'll have 5 or 6 S4+ players in their face the turn after, squeezing them on the sideline, if they stall.
And they see that coming, with gobs back to stop the safe deep switch play, and they score, or you start surfing their entire team.
So, if they won't take a wing, you can eventually fence the entire field off from them. There's no blodgestepping past, there's always TZs, elves can throw dice to get players through, and forcing the play from there gets tricky, but most teams are done.
Your own drives are easy, relatively, you've got a wall of easy 2d blocks, and enough guard to ensure they can't really hit you back, and if you've played Dorfs, well, having a stunty dodge to finish is a better deal than what they get facing a fence on T8.
Sure, you might waste RRs on early fails, but don't do that, just place your free players so they can't sack the ball, eat the brawler fails, and say, yum, more please.
And the games where they remove Black Orcs like so much Snotling chaff, which happen, well, you still have a couple stunty dodges and you've screened the ball out the other side where they can't get it.
Give or take for legend Gutters with horns and heads and stuff, who, of course, get the boot. Speaking of the boot, the team does work better with 2-3 Dirty Gits, or 1 and a bribe or two, just because people get fighty about it, and fighting borcs is bad odds.
You only really want Bomber if you're against a team that can massively outblock you when you drive them into the sideline, like guardstack orcs or something, or if it's dodgy elves.
Ideally you'll have a couple MB/Block/Tackle Borcs, because them falling over and staying down does make getting forward easier on short drives. But mostly, my random S team did better than just picking stuff on the next one, had some BT and Jugger and stand firm and just made putting pressure on to make them score a bit easier.
Just think about that pressure to score. Hand squishy things around for more blocks and a good gang foul, put sturdy guards out where their repositioning options get worse. Maybe actually take a Jugger guy for those Stand Firm Guards like Flesh Golems.
This means you force the score, and if they don't score, you stop them.
To force the score with MA 4 players, you send them up a wing, either wing is fine.
Most of your team then runs diagonally backward, not that you can cut them off yet, but you'll have 5 or 6 S4+ players in their face the turn after, squeezing them on the sideline, if they stall.
And they see that coming, with gobs back to stop the safe deep switch play, and they score, or you start surfing their entire team.
So, if they won't take a wing, you can eventually fence the entire field off from them. There's no blodgestepping past, there's always TZs, elves can throw dice to get players through, and forcing the play from there gets tricky, but most teams are done.
Your own drives are easy, relatively, you've got a wall of easy 2d blocks, and enough guard to ensure they can't really hit you back, and if you've played Dorfs, well, having a stunty dodge to finish is a better deal than what they get facing a fence on T8.
Sure, you might waste RRs on early fails, but don't do that, just place your free players so they can't sack the ball, eat the brawler fails, and say, yum, more please.
And the games where they remove Black Orcs like so much Snotling chaff, which happen, well, you still have a couple stunty dodges and you've screened the ball out the other side where they can't get it.
Give or take for legend Gutters with horns and heads and stuff, who, of course, get the boot. Speaking of the boot, the team does work better with 2-3 Dirty Gits, or 1 and a bribe or two, just because people get fighty about it, and fighting borcs is bad odds.
You only really want Bomber if you're against a team that can massively outblock you when you drive them into the sideline, like guardstack orcs or something, or if it's dodgy elves.
Ideally you'll have a couple MB/Block/Tackle Borcs, because them falling over and staying down does make getting forward easier on short drives. But mostly, my random S team did better than just picking stuff on the next one, had some BT and Jugger and stand firm and just made putting pressure on to make them score a bit easier.
Just think about that pressure to score. Hand squishy things around for more blocks and a good gang foul, put sturdy guards out where their repositioning options get worse. Maybe actually take a Jugger guy for those Stand Firm Guards like Flesh Golems.
Posted by Java on 2022-09-19 22:16:22
That should have been a blog post, tussock. Chapeau. Maybe to be expanded into an article for the GLN, even.
Posted by Java on 2022-09-25 21:40:24
Brought 14-menz black orcs to a TT event
Went 2-1 vs verminator Skaven, 1-2 vs grifflings (rolled armour 5 times on the bugger, never broke it), and 2-1 Vs Karla zons
Seems that the Malta ruleset doesn't deter stars too much
6 guards and a sneaky git do carry a lot of weight though
In a Star heavy environment there could be a case for strip ball gobbo instead of Leader troll :)
Went 2-1 vs verminator Skaven, 1-2 vs grifflings (rolled armour 5 times on the bugger, never broke it), and 2-1 Vs Karla zons
Seems that the Malta ruleset doesn't deter stars too much
6 guards and a sneaky git do carry a lot of weight though
In a Star heavy environment there could be a case for strip ball gobbo instead of Leader troll :)