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2011-12-02 12:21:25
45 votes, rating 4.2
45 votes, rating 4.2
Min-maxers...
I´ve prolly misunderstood the Black Box, but ive NEVER aimed for my 30, 40 50 or even 100 games old team to be able to play vs totally new teams. And still sit with 300k, opr even 2 mil in treasury!
For you who do this, i think you are really lame, i know you think your cool, smart and prooving some sort of point, when in fact you are only being a ****.
Grow up, evolve your team and play with the big boys!
For you who do this, i think you are really lame, i know you think your cool, smart and prooving some sort of point, when in fact you are only being a ****.
Grow up, evolve your team and play with the big boys!
Comments
Posted by pythrr on 2011-12-02 13:27:09
boring
rules say ....
rules say ....
Posted by SergeiBautin on 2011-12-02 13:44:47
Boring?
Posted by Hitonagashi on 2011-12-02 14:07:32
What if your team evolves to have a max TV of 1500 and regularly gets smacked down to 1100 TV or less, while not sacking healthy players?
Posted by Qaz on 2011-12-02 14:12:06
It CRaP but it is written in the rules!
Posted by pythrr on 2011-12-02 15:08:19
yes, whining about team building and management that are within the rules is boring....
Posted by blader4411 on 2011-12-02 15:09:51
Epic fail.
Run back to Ranked!
Run back to Ranked!
Posted by Carnis on 2011-12-02 15:11:46
I have fallen prey to this sort of play numerous times (being both the culprit & the victim). One thing that leads to this is the somewhat unhealthy environment at tv2000+, which leads to frequent team resets by old & healthy teams. Nowdays it seems the only viable way to build a majors team is building it up at 1400-1600 and then bump it up to 1800-2300's right before the major, if it bothers you a lot, try ranked..
Im not offended by minmaxing personally. More upset by some coaches who have started playing purely the single clawpomb blitz/turn, with no positioning, no strategy, no attempt at defence and sometimes getting away with it just fine..
Im not offended by minmaxing personally. More upset by some coaches who have started playing purely the single clawpomb blitz/turn, with no positioning, no strategy, no attempt at defence and sometimes getting away with it just fine..
Posted by Calcium on 2011-12-02 16:52:59
CRY....
Posted by DonTomaso on 2011-12-02 17:07:02
Carnis: Often the same crowd...
And some of them are offended even as we speak.
And some of them are offended even as we speak.
Posted by SergeiBautin on 2011-12-02 17:42:55
Qaz, yep, and the fact that its ok is crap :)
pythrr : Ah ok, just wanted to know what was the boring part. And ppl hiding behind "its within the ruuuuules" are the most boring pppl i know.
Blader, nah not so epic. And the day ill "go back to Ranked" is the day when ppl listen to sad ones like you, that enjoys clawpombing new teams. Thankfully you are amongst a few :)
Carnis, I see your point, and if you check my stats, ive tried a few ranked games in my days ;-) But the trouble is that ppl is very picky in that division nowadays, and if you like me dont have time for a SMACK, its usually very timeconsuming to get a game, unless you make a Halfling or Vamp team.
Calcium : Kratta rabatten!
DonTomaso : :-)
pythrr : Ah ok, just wanted to know what was the boring part. And ppl hiding behind "its within the ruuuuules" are the most boring pppl i know.
Blader, nah not so epic. And the day ill "go back to Ranked" is the day when ppl listen to sad ones like you, that enjoys clawpombing new teams. Thankfully you are amongst a few :)
Carnis, I see your point, and if you check my stats, ive tried a few ranked games in my days ;-) But the trouble is that ppl is very picky in that division nowadays, and if you like me dont have time for a SMACK, its usually very timeconsuming to get a game, unless you make a Halfling or Vamp team.
Calcium : Kratta rabatten!
DonTomaso : :-)
Posted by King_Ghidra on 2011-12-02 17:50:34
The language of those exploiting the system and gaining from it is always the same: 'go cry', 'run away', 'whiner'. It is the language of an 8 year-old bully, and it is very sad to see.
People keep talking about 'the rules', but the behaviour of teams and coaches in the Box is nothing to do with CRP, it is purely a result of how Box works.
Change Box to CR-based matching, or widen the scheduler's bands so that teams in their sweet-spot might find themselves paired against more developed teams, and the whole meta-game will change - all while still playing to exactly the same CRP rules.
People keep talking about 'the rules', but the behaviour of teams and coaches in the Box is nothing to do with CRP, it is purely a result of how Box works.
Change Box to CR-based matching, or widen the scheduler's bands so that teams in their sweet-spot might find themselves paired against more developed teams, and the whole meta-game will change - all while still playing to exactly the same CRP rules.
Posted by Jake101 on 2011-12-02 18:13:53
This seems to be an everlasting argument between two different point of views, and not just in FUMBBL, but in many different game / competition scenes. Some people feel that there is some kind of "spirit of the game" that should be followed even if it is not written. The others think that everything is ok if it is within the rules, and thus naturally part of the game.
I tend to think that it is nice if a fair level of sportsmanship is followed, but that is not usually the case in the most competitive scenes (there are some exceptions), so better just cope with it or start playing easy-going and casual games. But this is just a matter of taste.
I tend to think that it is nice if a fair level of sportsmanship is followed, but that is not usually the case in the most competitive scenes (there are some exceptions), so better just cope with it or start playing easy-going and casual games. But this is just a matter of taste.
Posted by pythrr on 2011-12-02 18:26:21
om nom nom
Posted by Corvidius on 2011-12-02 18:43:46
What occurs to me is that some teams are naturally competitive at certainly tvs where as others require effort to be competitive at that tv. So in essence some teams are naturally min-maxed and others require the coach to balance make them more competive at that level. I see that as an intrinsic part of the game and simply something ypu have to adjust your playing style to compensate for.
Posted by SergeiBautin on 2011-12-02 19:30:13
Couldnt agree more King_Ghidra. Since they cant even argue about why its a good thing, just "cryyyy", "its ruuuules" and "omnomnom" (my favourite) just shows what kind of ppl we are dealing with here :)
Posted by Corvidius on 2011-12-02 20:27:42
@SergeiBautin,
I would have thought the arguments for it were self evident. It's an efficient method of achieving the objective the game and indeed the competitive division rules set you, winning. When considering a game that is competitive that is the ultimate aim.
Don't get me wrong, i love character, flavour and what I consider fair play. I love using Goblins and Ogres and even Vampires. I love skilling up whole teams and picking skills that are considered 'suboptimal' but ultimately i'm trying to win. I can't argue against anyone winning if what they're doing is fair, and the only thing which defines fairness IS the game rules otherwise it is an entirely too subjective concept. Consider if you will why it is that no-one complains about tactics that are failing, only tactics that are succeeding or how actions like foulling seem more acceptable by a losing team than a team that is winning?
I would have thought the arguments for it were self evident. It's an efficient method of achieving the objective the game and indeed the competitive division rules set you, winning. When considering a game that is competitive that is the ultimate aim.
Don't get me wrong, i love character, flavour and what I consider fair play. I love using Goblins and Ogres and even Vampires. I love skilling up whole teams and picking skills that are considered 'suboptimal' but ultimately i'm trying to win. I can't argue against anyone winning if what they're doing is fair, and the only thing which defines fairness IS the game rules otherwise it is an entirely too subjective concept. Consider if you will why it is that no-one complains about tactics that are failing, only tactics that are succeeding or how actions like foulling seem more acceptable by a losing team than a team that is winning?
Posted by pythrr on 2011-12-02 22:17:04
" the only thing which defines fairness IS the game rules"
+1
+1
Posted by pythrr on 2011-12-02 23:33:22
"we are dealing with here"
You are not dealing with anything or anyone. You are simply ineffectually whining about the current rules.
You are not dealing with anything or anyone. You are simply ineffectually whining about the current rules.
Posted by Beerox on 2011-12-02 23:48:13
Min-maxing is fun for everyone and all-around awesome *cuts skilled-up hobgoblin in favor of loner*
Posted by BillBrasky on 2011-12-03 14:31:24
I see and agree with both sides of the argument.
I think for example, making CD with no bulls, having 2 clawpomb legends, and 9 rookies is extremely lame. So I don't do it.
However; we can only be responsible for our own conduct.
On the other hand, the box is the competitive division on Fumbbl, and it is within the rules, so it is fair & just.
I let my chaos rise to 2200+ and they very quickly get knocked back to 1300.
I find rebuilding over & over quite fun. Not everyone else does though.
I think it is smart of people to keep teams at their respective "sweet spots." As previously stated, this is just team management, and I think it would exist in any open league, not just the box.
I also have no problem with people throwing 16 fouls or clearing my team off of the pitch. It is part of the game, and if you draw me, expect that I will most likely try to do the same against you.
I think for example, making CD with no bulls, having 2 clawpomb legends, and 9 rookies is extremely lame. So I don't do it.
However; we can only be responsible for our own conduct.
On the other hand, the box is the competitive division on Fumbbl, and it is within the rules, so it is fair & just.
I let my chaos rise to 2200+ and they very quickly get knocked back to 1300.
I find rebuilding over & over quite fun. Not everyone else does though.
I think it is smart of people to keep teams at their respective "sweet spots." As previously stated, this is just team management, and I think it would exist in any open league, not just the box.
I also have no problem with people throwing 16 fouls or clearing my team off of the pitch. It is part of the game, and if you draw me, expect that I will most likely try to do the same against you.
Posted by SergeiBautin on 2011-12-03 20:20:25
Well, i dont think the game is just about "as long as i follow the rules i do what the F i want", i like to see it as a social event as well. If not, then i might as well play COD or something else. Noone is forced to use the chat window either, but when you play vs a Silent Bob fella, at least i get bored.
And when my new team, probably without Apo, gets "ambushed" by a "2 legend ClawPOMBers and the rest rookies", i know that you are not here to do anything but to retire my team, there goes the social factor out the window.
Call it whining, oh mighty pythrr, but i dont call that fair play, and i hope this will be stopped in the future.
And when my new team, probably without Apo, gets "ambushed" by a "2 legend ClawPOMBers and the rest rookies", i know that you are not here to do anything but to retire my team, there goes the social factor out the window.
Call it whining, oh mighty pythrr, but i dont call that fair play, and i hope this will be stopped in the future.
Posted by Dragons on 2011-12-03 21:22:48
There is more assholes on internet games then real life.
Posted by koadah on 2011-12-04 01:03:41
"It's the rules" is true but not much of an argument as the commish can add whatever house rules he likes. The whole TV matching thing is a house rule that makes this possible.
The whole "mustn't use journeymen while hoarding cash" thing isn't much of a rule. It's more of a "you're screwed if the admin on duty at the time doesn't like your team" kind of thing.
Another similar rule is another invitation to a whole crap storm of screeching.
Maybe you could draw up a decent rule for us that is easy to implement and check.
Team management is part of the game after all.
In the mean time you could maybe have some sympathy for coaches who need to boost their egos this way perhaps to compensate for tiny members.
The whole "mustn't use journeymen while hoarding cash" thing isn't much of a rule. It's more of a "you're screwed if the admin on duty at the time doesn't like your team" kind of thing.
Another similar rule is another invitation to a whole crap storm of screeching.
Maybe you could draw up a decent rule for us that is easy to implement and check.
Team management is part of the game after all.
In the mean time you could maybe have some sympathy for coaches who need to boost their egos this way perhaps to compensate for tiny members.
Posted by Wreckage on 2011-12-04 11:57:22
What has having money to do with the other stuff oO?
Posted by Calcium on 2011-12-04 12:21:30
I say bring back LRB4. The arguments that now revolved around that ruleset seem so pointless in comparison to the issues with CRaP.
None the less, you are still here playing it. so you can't hate it that much right???
None the less, you are still here playing it. so you can't hate it that much right???
Posted by pythrr on 2012-01-09 13:49:23
emo