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2009-11-29 02:28:30
28 votes, rating 3.9
28 votes, rating 3.9
Elfbowling in Ranked Division
I don't want to open a can of worms here. Really, I don't. But I've just been confronted with an interesting situation and would welcome any sensible advice that's out there...
I have just played a game, in Ranked, against a coach who realised late on in the game that I was on his blacklist for, as he put it, being an "elfbowler". He was perfectly nice about it, finished the game and asked if I could avoid playing him in future. We got to talking about the problem and his view is that any elf team in Ranked who has played more than 50% of its games against other elf teams is elfbowling.
The reason for this is, he said, because this style of play artificially boosts a team's TS and TR because they are not suffering the level of attrition they should in a balanced competitive league - which I accept is what Ranked should be.
To be honest, it's not something I've given much thought to before. I play against any type of team I think will give me the sort of game I enjoy, but as I happen to like games with lots of passing, I look for opponents with teams built around the passing/quick scoring game and obviously this means elven and skaven teams.
Also, and sorry if you don't believe this but it is true, I really don't care much about attrition. Having a battered team just means playing weaker opponents. I am very protective of my passers, but apart from that, I really don't care about the rest of the team, so it isn't to protect my players that I look for elven opponents, it's just that an elven opponent will generally allow me to receive the kick - and so throw a pass - several times whereas against orcs, khemri etc I may only get one chance to pass during the entire game.
Anyway, the point is this...
Having now been made aware of this situation, what should I do?
Should I just ignore the opinion of my opponent and carry on playing the way I do?
Should I deliberately play more bashy teams to redress the balance?
Is elfbowling wrong, or a valid team-building strategy?
And please, sensible suggestions only. If you want to be rude, frivolous or facetious I have several old blog entries where your comments would be more than welcome.
Thanks.
I have just played a game, in Ranked, against a coach who realised late on in the game that I was on his blacklist for, as he put it, being an "elfbowler". He was perfectly nice about it, finished the game and asked if I could avoid playing him in future. We got to talking about the problem and his view is that any elf team in Ranked who has played more than 50% of its games against other elf teams is elfbowling.
The reason for this is, he said, because this style of play artificially boosts a team's TS and TR because they are not suffering the level of attrition they should in a balanced competitive league - which I accept is what Ranked should be.
To be honest, it's not something I've given much thought to before. I play against any type of team I think will give me the sort of game I enjoy, but as I happen to like games with lots of passing, I look for opponents with teams built around the passing/quick scoring game and obviously this means elven and skaven teams.
Also, and sorry if you don't believe this but it is true, I really don't care much about attrition. Having a battered team just means playing weaker opponents. I am very protective of my passers, but apart from that, I really don't care about the rest of the team, so it isn't to protect my players that I look for elven opponents, it's just that an elven opponent will generally allow me to receive the kick - and so throw a pass - several times whereas against orcs, khemri etc I may only get one chance to pass during the entire game.
Anyway, the point is this...
Having now been made aware of this situation, what should I do?
Should I just ignore the opinion of my opponent and carry on playing the way I do?
Should I deliberately play more bashy teams to redress the balance?
Is elfbowling wrong, or a valid team-building strategy?
And please, sensible suggestions only. If you want to be rude, frivolous or facetious I have several old blog entries where your comments would be more than welcome.
Thanks.
Comments
Posted by pythrr on 2009-11-29 03:03:08
yes
just play anyone you like and ignore critics.
just play anyone you like and ignore critics.
Posted by maysrill on 2009-11-29 04:56:12
The anti-elfbowlers are a curious lot. For a one-off ranked game, who really cares how a team got there? Personally, I think they're mostly bitter bash-happy coaches who can't find enough elves for their chaos/khemri/orcs/dwarfs to pick on.
I wouldn't let one guy bother you.
I wouldn't let one guy bother you.
Posted by Zombie69 on 2009-11-29 05:09:49
It's when you consider tournaments that elfbowling is unfair. And if your team isn't heading for tournaments, you've gotta consider that the one you're playing against might, and you're giving them an unfair advantage.
Posted by Jeffro on 2009-11-29 06:06:57
Ignore them. And even if you agree with Zombie that elfbowling is unfair for tournaments, it really doesn't matter because once the team enters a tournament if the "elfbowling" team goes up against a bashy team, they won't have as much practice against them and will likely get the attrition that they avoided in [R]...
A bully for you! You're on a blacklist! You're nobody till somebody hates you! ;)
A bully for you! You're on a blacklist! You're nobody till somebody hates you! ;)
Posted by rackasaur on 2009-11-29 07:38:23
I made a dwarf team to counteroffer them - when they challenge my elfbowling teams I offer the dwarves instead. They somehow find someone else to play ...
Posted by Zombie69 on 2009-11-29 08:02:58
"it really doesn't matter because once the team enters a tournament if the "elfbowling" team goes up against a bashy team, they won't have as much practice against them and will likely get the attrition that they avoided in [R]"
I've heard that argument many times before and it's just a lie. Just because the team didn't play against bashers, doesn't mean the coach doesn't. The same coach could just as easily have another team of the same race that plays nothing but bashers, and get all the practice he needs.
Elfbowlers get an unfair advantage that they wouldn't get in a well run league, plain and simple.
I've heard that argument many times before and it's just a lie. Just because the team didn't play against bashers, doesn't mean the coach doesn't. The same coach could just as easily have another team of the same race that plays nothing but bashers, and get all the practice he needs.
Elfbowlers get an unfair advantage that they wouldn't get in a well run league, plain and simple.
Posted by pythrr on 2009-11-29 08:07:29
err, yes, but fumbbl [R] is an open league, so its tournaments therefore involve teams that are created from said open play.
so, unless you are building teams like our recently exposed reload cabal, its all good.
so, unless you are building teams like our recently exposed reload cabal, its all good.
Posted by Mr_Foulscumm on 2009-11-29 09:23:37
So this was after the game vs Zombie69 right? :D
Posted by Purplegoo on 2009-11-29 10:19:50
I think you should play in such a manner that you enjoy yourself. If that's mostly Elfball, then good luck to you. You are actually choosing harder one off games for yourself doing so - other Elves are generally tougher to beat than bashers.
If you are to enter Tournaments with teams that have Elfballed, again, don't listen to what anyone else thinks. It could be seen as sensible management, artificial pimping, or a lost needle in an already seedy belt of questionable ethics. You make your own mind up.
We're all here to ahve fun at the end of the day, you have your own.
If you are to enter Tournaments with teams that have Elfballed, again, don't listen to what anyone else thinks. It could be seen as sensible management, artificial pimping, or a lost needle in an already seedy belt of questionable ethics. You make your own mind up.
We're all here to ahve fun at the end of the day, you have your own.
Posted by Jinxed on 2009-11-29 10:30:35
There is one simple rule in life;
Do as you please without restricting someone else's life.
(where ever possible of course)
Do as you please without restricting someone else's life.
(where ever possible of course)
Posted by Calcium on 2009-11-29 11:08:17
Play within Ranked how you like. I think it's rather amusing how many coaches have to justify their playstyle here, especially when it is perfectly legal to play any race you like.
There's always the blackbox, where any coach can create an elf team and NEVER be accused of elfballing....
There's always the blackbox, where any coach can create an elf team and NEVER be accused of elfballing....
Posted by Frankenstein on 2009-11-29 11:16:09
I really like zombie's blacklist there.
It's rather a reference check for elfbowlers, actually. :)
It's rather a reference check for elfbowlers, actually. :)
Posted by DukeTyrion on 2009-11-29 14:15:52
At the end of the day, you are talking about Ranked where you have the right to choose who you play against.
If you, Zombie69 or anyone really wants to play against a true, random set of opponents there is Blackbox, otherwise play the games you enjoy.
I am not sure why supposed Elfbowlers get the stick anyway, there are bash teams that build their teams in such a way as to be able to specifically defeat bashy teams, yet you don't see them getting stick for only playing bashers.
Play the games you enjoy, ignore Zombie69. Although, for your own benefit, you should try to play a wide range of styles, races and opponents to improve your game.
If you, Zombie69 or anyone really wants to play against a true, random set of opponents there is Blackbox, otherwise play the games you enjoy.
I am not sure why supposed Elfbowlers get the stick anyway, there are bash teams that build their teams in such a way as to be able to specifically defeat bashy teams, yet you don't see them getting stick for only playing bashers.
Play the games you enjoy, ignore Zombie69. Although, for your own benefit, you should try to play a wide range of styles, races and opponents to improve your game.
Posted by Zombie69 on 2009-11-29 18:59:25
"I really like zombie's blacklist there.
It's rather a reference check for elfbowlers, actually. :)"
If you use it as such, you'll be disappointed, because a few are there for other reasons, and you'll be sad when you meet them! ;-p
It's rather a reference check for elfbowlers, actually. :)"
If you use it as such, you'll be disappointed, because a few are there for other reasons, and you'll be sad when you meet them! ;-p
Posted by Zombie69 on 2009-11-29 19:04:43
"I am not sure why supposed Elfbowlers get the stick anyway, there are bash teams that build their teams in such a way as to be able to specifically defeat bashy teams, yet you don't see them getting stick for only playing bashers."
The reason is simple. As stated before, elfbowling reduces attrition, which gives you an unfair advantage when time comes to enter a tournament.
Tournament organizers (at least for the majors) have started cracking down on teams that got pimped through a selection of easy games. I think that's a step in the right direction.
If elfbowlers were simply not admitted in ranked tournaments, i'd have no problem anymore with elfbwling and i'd actually take all those people out of my black list.
The reason is simple. As stated before, elfbowling reduces attrition, which gives you an unfair advantage when time comes to enter a tournament.
Tournament organizers (at least for the majors) have started cracking down on teams that got pimped through a selection of easy games. I think that's a step in the right direction.
If elfbowlers were simply not admitted in ranked tournaments, i'd have no problem anymore with elfbwling and i'd actually take all those people out of my black list.
Posted by Curro on 2009-11-30 12:39:56
Keep on playing the way you want to. (So that I can keep on picking on your teams when I need a recover =P )
Curro
Curro