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2008-11-03 20:25:37
40 votes, rating 4.3
40 votes, rating 4.3
Play to win & using the rules
I read some material especially at the forum concerning to play to win, using fouling, stalling and whatever the rules allow.
This does not agree with every coach, but I get the impression with the majority of the top coaches at least.
There seems to be however one exception.
Rules allow 4 minutes per turn and worst case 10 minute overtime. I met already a fair number of coaches, who mentioned after 2-3 minutes per turn, that the game should be sped up.
I claim, that this decreases the probability to win, with a lot of coaches. Mistakes are made because of rushing things, clicks are done at wrong fields, ...
My perception is that some coaches who believe that using all rules to their full extend is best, most efficient way to play, seem not to realize that it is rule as well that turn can take 4 minutes.
This is just a for me interesting observation.
P.S.: This is not about abusing any rules and mechanisms, but an observation with standard, normal, friendly games.
This does not agree with every coach, but I get the impression with the majority of the top coaches at least.
There seems to be however one exception.
Rules allow 4 minutes per turn and worst case 10 minute overtime. I met already a fair number of coaches, who mentioned after 2-3 minutes per turn, that the game should be sped up.
I claim, that this decreases the probability to win, with a lot of coaches. Mistakes are made because of rushing things, clicks are done at wrong fields, ...
My perception is that some coaches who believe that using all rules to their full extend is best, most efficient way to play, seem not to realize that it is rule as well that turn can take 4 minutes.
This is just a for me interesting observation.
P.S.: This is not about abusing any rules and mechanisms, but an observation with standard, normal, friendly games.
Comments
Posted by Synn on 2008-11-03 20:46:04
I think that while at face value it might seem true that using your full turn makes you take the most optimal move, it also can produce mistakes by causing a coach to second guess their instincts.
Some coaches here have simply played so long that they have great instincts in terms of seeing the play as its developing. They basically use their opponent's turn to plot their moves, changing their decisions on the basis of where their opponent moves.
This can produce an advantage because the very order of someone's actions tends to give away how important they are. In a few cases, you can actually see where a side switch is going to happen just on the basis of how important they deemed that "lino move over here" action.
Finally, there is the whole psychology of playing against a fast coach. It does impact a coach to see the other able to move so fast during their turn without making any glaring errors. Now I am sure not all coaches on here will agree with me.... but in game psychology is an important part of the game. Some coaches get so psyched out that they will "settle" for a tie when a purely statistical approach would suggestion "that team will likely have 6 players for the next kickoff.... go for the early TD and score again!".
__Synn
Some coaches here have simply played so long that they have great instincts in terms of seeing the play as its developing. They basically use their opponent's turn to plot their moves, changing their decisions on the basis of where their opponent moves.
This can produce an advantage because the very order of someone's actions tends to give away how important they are. In a few cases, you can actually see where a side switch is going to happen just on the basis of how important they deemed that "lino move over here" action.
Finally, there is the whole psychology of playing against a fast coach. It does impact a coach to see the other able to move so fast during their turn without making any glaring errors. Now I am sure not all coaches on here will agree with me.... but in game psychology is an important part of the game. Some coaches get so psyched out that they will "settle" for a tie when a purely statistical approach would suggestion "that team will likely have 6 players for the next kickoff.... go for the early TD and score again!".
__Synn
Posted by SillySod on 2008-11-03 22:28:15
I agree with what Synn wrote below but I dont think he answered the implied question. The implied question is "why do some coaches insist on hassling me to take my turns faster, are they right?" My answer to that would be that you should feel free to take your time. If you are going over the 4 minute time limit repeatedly then you should probably try to speed up but other than that you are well within your rights to use the time as you see fit (unless you are deliberately wasting time). For some people being quick can be game-winning but for others taking your time can be game-winning.
Posted by Sockosensei on 2008-11-04 01:46:51
It's nice to finish games quickly...because it means we've got more time to start another game!
But that said, take your time. If someone's being a jerk and hassling you to speed up, ignore them. If they ask nicely, then maybe you could consider.
If it becomes a big problem, then mention before starting a match that you often use the whole clock, or write a note in your profile.
But that said, take your time. If someone's being a jerk and hassling you to speed up, ignore them. If they ask nicely, then maybe you could consider.
If it becomes a big problem, then mention before starting a match that you often use the whole clock, or write a note in your profile.
Posted by pythrr on 2008-11-04 02:46:51
Yes, but just avoid being Dominik.
Posted by JanMattys on 2008-11-04 09:57:34
Also remember that you don't have to roll dice on the Java client, and a lot of other things are automatically calculated... so compared to real life Bloodbowl 4 minutes are an AWFUL LOT of time...
Posted by DonTomaso on 2008-11-04 10:06:04
The 4 minute rule is from the LRB, and when playing IRL you have to calculate everything yourself... thus, 4 min should be plenty of time when playing with the client.
Otherwise: What Synn said...
Pythrr: We're not allowed to mention Dominik and slow in the same sentence anymore, according to Dominik, at least... :)
Otherwise: What Synn said...
Pythrr: We're not allowed to mention Dominik and slow in the same sentence anymore, according to Dominik, at least... :)
Posted by Woodstock on 2008-11-04 11:41:14
Keep it nice guys.
But indeed, I think Jan got the best point here. 4 minutes is way too much for JavaBB, the place where you don't have to roll and look on your papers what skills everyone has. It saves so much time, Im not saying everyone should finish within the minute, but 2max would be nice =)
But indeed, I think Jan got the best point here. 4 minutes is way too much for JavaBB, the place where you don't have to roll and look on your papers what skills everyone has. It saves so much time, Im not saying everyone should finish within the minute, but 2max would be nice =)
Posted by catmando on 2008-11-05 07:39:26
The four minute rule should be enforced, even here on fumbbl. Mainly for a number of reasons. The best one I can think of is courtesy. I personally hate extremely slow players, the ones who will take ten minutes or more to finish their turn. The game is also about thinking on your feet and formulating your moves ahead of time, like during your opponent's turn. Not waiting until they finish their turn and then taking 3-4 minutes to decide what to do AND then spend the next 5-6 minutes moving.