21 coaches online • Server time: 02:40
* * * Did you know? The most deaths in a single match is 8.
Recent Forum Topics  FUMBBL HAIKU'S | Gnomes are trash | NBFL Season 32: The ... |
2020-08-21 21:23:32
16 votes, rating 4.2
16 votes, rating 4.2
Unwritten Rules and Expectations
Unwritten Rules and Expectations
Unwritten rules and expectations exist in all games, sports, and life in general. They are often the source of arguments when someone does not know the rule or, more often (unless from different meta), breaks it but pretends to not know. But they are also the common thread that keeps everyone together. This blog is not intended to judge anyone’s unwritten rules as right or wrong. The only rule I will judge as “wrong” is the first comment that says there are no unwritten rules. That in and of itself is one and often is just code for “play to win and nothing else.” (Note: “Play to win and nothing else” is a fine rule, it is the dishonesty of “no rules” that bothers me.)
In Bloodbowl, they can range from “fouling is bad” to an expectation that you foul on turn 16 unless it will cost the game (I’ve played in both). These unwritten rules setup the expectations for which we play the game, a WAAC player in a WAAC environment will do great but in WAAC player in Stunty League environment will be ostracized or leave very quickly or vice versa. That may sound cold and unwelcoming but it is true. If we are going to waste hours of our life playing a game, we should at least find it enjoyable and fulfilling and if your enjoyment is not compatible with the opponent’s someone is just losing an hour of their life.
The main problem with unwritten rules is that they are unwritten. Especially on platforms like this where you have a huge variety of players, it can result in games where people leave unhappy. When my elves signup to play a Thrones of Blood player they know that they are going to get fouled on Turn 17 and every turn prior. God forbid that a legend hits the ground, they will somehow manage to get all 12 players surrounding him. Likewise, they know that I’m going to do my best to not let that happen. That is an easily defined group but you can probably think of a dozen or so unwritten rules you have or that you know other coaches have.
This also doesn’t mean that they can’t change. When I started playing 20 years ago, two elves would sit in back and play catch waiting for the clock to run down while the other nine danced around setting up a scoring run. It worked and it was accepted within the league which had a minor focus on team building but was mostly winning focused. When I rejoined Fumbbl earlier this year, after 15 years away from the game, I couldn’t do it anymore. That style of play no longer something I am interested in, it lowers my win percentage but for me that is ok. Unfortunately, I am also now less tolerant of those that break my previous rules. While games versus other casual players are more fun, games vs. WAAC (again not a bad thing) are less.
I recently branched out from elves to goblins, lower my CR by 10 points . I don’t know how long I will be sticking with them as they are just SOOO prone to snowballing in the second half (or earlier) that it isn’t enjoyable and I’m not finding tactics to improve that. I am also struggling with unwritten rules (hence this post) more. When someone is stalling vs. a stunty team it really irks me to the point that I’m tempted to just pass the rest of the turns to end the game. I’m sure that this is in part because in every league I have ever played in this has been practically a written rule. I suspect I have gotten a bit salty in some of my games if that is the case with a game I played with you or that you were watching, I apologize.
Being aware of your rules and expectations is a be step in accepting others IMO . What unwritten rules do you play with? How do you handle people not playing with yours?
Extra note: I absolutely did not intend this to be about the upcoming introduction of seasons but as I was writing this the parallels between what I was writing and the conversation in terms of play “my/our way“ in those threads was unmistakable.
Unwritten rules and expectations exist in all games, sports, and life in general. They are often the source of arguments when someone does not know the rule or, more often (unless from different meta), breaks it but pretends to not know. But they are also the common thread that keeps everyone together. This blog is not intended to judge anyone’s unwritten rules as right or wrong. The only rule I will judge as “wrong” is the first comment that says there are no unwritten rules. That in and of itself is one and often is just code for “play to win and nothing else.” (Note: “Play to win and nothing else” is a fine rule, it is the dishonesty of “no rules” that bothers me.)
In Bloodbowl, they can range from “fouling is bad” to an expectation that you foul on turn 16 unless it will cost the game (I’ve played in both). These unwritten rules setup the expectations for which we play the game, a WAAC player in a WAAC environment will do great but in WAAC player in Stunty League environment will be ostracized or leave very quickly or vice versa. That may sound cold and unwelcoming but it is true. If we are going to waste hours of our life playing a game, we should at least find it enjoyable and fulfilling and if your enjoyment is not compatible with the opponent’s someone is just losing an hour of their life.
The main problem with unwritten rules is that they are unwritten. Especially on platforms like this where you have a huge variety of players, it can result in games where people leave unhappy. When my elves signup to play a Thrones of Blood player they know that they are going to get fouled on Turn 17 and every turn prior. God forbid that a legend hits the ground, they will somehow manage to get all 12 players surrounding him. Likewise, they know that I’m going to do my best to not let that happen. That is an easily defined group but you can probably think of a dozen or so unwritten rules you have or that you know other coaches have.
This also doesn’t mean that they can’t change. When I started playing 20 years ago, two elves would sit in back and play catch waiting for the clock to run down while the other nine danced around setting up a scoring run. It worked and it was accepted within the league which had a minor focus on team building but was mostly winning focused. When I rejoined Fumbbl earlier this year, after 15 years away from the game, I couldn’t do it anymore. That style of play no longer something I am interested in, it lowers my win percentage but for me that is ok. Unfortunately, I am also now less tolerant of those that break my previous rules. While games versus other casual players are more fun, games vs. WAAC (again not a bad thing) are less.
I recently branched out from elves to goblins, lower my CR by 10 points . I don’t know how long I will be sticking with them as they are just SOOO prone to snowballing in the second half (or earlier) that it isn’t enjoyable and I’m not finding tactics to improve that. I am also struggling with unwritten rules (hence this post) more. When someone is stalling vs. a stunty team it really irks me to the point that I’m tempted to just pass the rest of the turns to end the game. I’m sure that this is in part because in every league I have ever played in this has been practically a written rule. I suspect I have gotten a bit salty in some of my games if that is the case with a game I played with you or that you were watching, I apologize.
Being aware of your rules and expectations is a be step in accepting others IMO . What unwritten rules do you play with? How do you handle people not playing with yours?
Extra note: I absolutely did not intend this to be about the upcoming introduction of seasons but as I was writing this the parallels between what I was writing and the conversation in terms of play “my/our way“ in those threads was unmistakable.
Comments
Posted by koadah on 2020-08-21 21:31:43
If it is not written, it isn't a rule.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhHoeSc9CrE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhHoeSc9CrE
Posted by MrCushtie on 2020-08-22 00:46:18
I was going to say something inflammatory about how if somebody is lacking in confidence enough that they have to stall vs goblins, they deserve your pity. You should concede and give them the match because in their empty lives, that's the best they can get.
However, it looks like you're only playing goblins in Ranked. That must be horrible, and doing it by choice is akin to kicking yourself up the backside as hard as you can - getting picked by dwarf and Nurgle teams is hard work to enjoy. League play with goblins is infinitely preferable, because it is quite hard to be viable in a TV-matched environment (no bribes sucks). Box can be ok, either if you built for the bloatiest goblin team that you can, or keeping TV as low as possible (which may also not be enjoyable).
However, it looks like you're only playing goblins in Ranked. That must be horrible, and doing it by choice is akin to kicking yourself up the backside as hard as you can - getting picked by dwarf and Nurgle teams is hard work to enjoy. League play with goblins is infinitely preferable, because it is quite hard to be viable in a TV-matched environment (no bribes sucks). Box can be ok, either if you built for the bloatiest goblin team that you can, or keeping TV as low as possible (which may also not be enjoyable).
Posted by MenonaLoco on 2020-08-22 01:57:53
Tldr
Posted by steinerp on 2020-08-22 02:33:17
@koadah - I hope that is a joke to the end of my first paragraph
@mrcushtie - I don't disagree with that and it matches my thoughts in general. The problem is when I am already annoyed at 75% of my team being out of play or the ref ignoring my bribe etc. I lose perspective and the pity for them transform to pity and resentment for me wasting time.
@mrcushtie - I don't disagree with that and it matches my thoughts in general. The problem is when I am already annoyed at 75% of my team being out of play or the ref ignoring my bribe etc. I lose perspective and the pity for them transform to pity and resentment for me wasting time.
Posted by garyt1 on 2020-08-22 04:34:42
Sounds like if you are fed up of bad 2nd halves you need to go back to a more solid team for a while.
I often use Ogres in the box, but that doesn't mean I expect people not to stall against me. Folks don't want to risk a draw against stunties if they don't need too.
For me an unwritten rule would be if you don't time someone out, then they don't time you out later in the same match either. Especially if happening due to chatting.
I often use Ogres in the box, but that doesn't mean I expect people not to stall against me. Folks don't want to risk a draw against stunties if they don't need too.
For me an unwritten rule would be if you don't time someone out, then they don't time you out later in the same match either. Especially if happening due to chatting.
Posted by koadah on 2020-08-22 09:43:45
Yes and no. ;)
It is incorrect. A rule doesn't have to be written to be a rule. I just couldn't be bothered to fix it.
But on this site, not stalling against stunties is NOT a rule. Written or otherwise.
As the video shows, if you have no rules, then you have no rules. Guess what? The next time they had rules. ;)
It is incorrect. A rule doesn't have to be written to be a rule. I just couldn't be bothered to fix it.
But on this site, not stalling against stunties is NOT a rule. Written or otherwise.
As the video shows, if you have no rules, then you have no rules. Guess what? The next time they had rules. ;)
Posted by Bloodfeast on 2020-08-22 10:55:30
Many things that are not a rule is just common sense and curtisy. I have played a lot of players and most people are great to chat with and I dont have a problem with f.ex. when people blame me of being a lucker or if every turn they do is 5 minutes long or if they are abusive, cause I am to old to bother and they are the way they are and cant be "fixed" by me arguing with them in a online game.
I however managed to play a different mindset a while back, and it wasnt the first time I played someone like that, and it will prolly not be the last but they are not that common.
First round second half, I had 10 players norse while my opponent had 6 players of elf and he was kicking and the score where 1-1. He said it was no point in playing since I was going to win so said just make it quick.
I have come across players that where suddenly in a hurry so I thought it would be a nice thing to do, so I run to his endzone and secured my position in case it was a trick. It appered to be tru and he did just press "next turn" without move some of his players so I stalled to my turn 16 and scored, without attacking some of his players.
I kicked his turn 16 and he decided to gice my guys on the LOS a beating. I think he did it so some guy could get a spp or maybe of pure frustration. I can accept that but I think it was kinda low, since I didnt try to get some spp from his players for 6 turns in a row.
So, now I am more in the line of what to do next time someone offers me the same deal? SHall I play as he is a legendary coach in a final of a major, just secure the win by not giving him any chanse of trying to score in turn 16 by reducing his players to zero? Is the game not over until it is over at any means necessary?
Or shall I treat my opponent by taking the "high road" and accept what happends next?
I however managed to play a different mindset a while back, and it wasnt the first time I played someone like that, and it will prolly not be the last but they are not that common.
First round second half, I had 10 players norse while my opponent had 6 players of elf and he was kicking and the score where 1-1. He said it was no point in playing since I was going to win so said just make it quick.
I have come across players that where suddenly in a hurry so I thought it would be a nice thing to do, so I run to his endzone and secured my position in case it was a trick. It appered to be tru and he did just press "next turn" without move some of his players so I stalled to my turn 16 and scored, without attacking some of his players.
I kicked his turn 16 and he decided to gice my guys on the LOS a beating. I think he did it so some guy could get a spp or maybe of pure frustration. I can accept that but I think it was kinda low, since I didnt try to get some spp from his players for 6 turns in a row.
So, now I am more in the line of what to do next time someone offers me the same deal? SHall I play as he is a legendary coach in a final of a major, just secure the win by not giving him any chanse of trying to score in turn 16 by reducing his players to zero? Is the game not over until it is over at any means necessary?
Or shall I treat my opponent by taking the "high road" and accept what happends next?
Posted by Pirigin on 2020-08-22 11:19:22
In the usual meaning unwritten rules aren't individual. Unwritten rules are constraints that are collectively agreed upon although not officially communicated (written).
So in the sense of the term, the rules you have made up as an individual are not unwritten rules. They are only considered unwritten rules if they are agreed upon by the majority of the collective.
That said, when there are subgroups in a population, different groups can have different collective unwritten rules. These might come into conflict with another in interactions between the subgroups.
IMO there are some unwritten rules on fumbbl. And there are some unwritten rules that only adhere to specific subgroups on fumbbl. But since it is very clear within which context a game on fumbbl is played, it is seldom hard to keep track of what unwritten rules should be adhered to in a specific game.
IMO there is seldom a problem with someone breaking an unwritten rule on fumbbl. It is way more usual for someone to claim the opponent has broken an unwritten rule when in fact the unwritten rule don't exist. There is no unwritten rule against stalling in the competitive division. In the competitive divisions it is expected that both players do what they think is best for winning.
Timing out is a recurring topic. Why? Because up til today we havent reached a collective agreed upon understanding of what the unwritten rules are regarding timing out. Although most of us agree with garyt1 on what the unwritten rule is. It is ok to time someone out without warning. It is not ok to time someone out if you ask them questions in chat that they need to use their time to answer. It is not ok to time someone out if you repeatedly exceeded the limit but didt get timed out.
So in the sense of the term, the rules you have made up as an individual are not unwritten rules. They are only considered unwritten rules if they are agreed upon by the majority of the collective.
That said, when there are subgroups in a population, different groups can have different collective unwritten rules. These might come into conflict with another in interactions between the subgroups.
IMO there are some unwritten rules on fumbbl. And there are some unwritten rules that only adhere to specific subgroups on fumbbl. But since it is very clear within which context a game on fumbbl is played, it is seldom hard to keep track of what unwritten rules should be adhered to in a specific game.
IMO there is seldom a problem with someone breaking an unwritten rule on fumbbl. It is way more usual for someone to claim the opponent has broken an unwritten rule when in fact the unwritten rule don't exist. There is no unwritten rule against stalling in the competitive division. In the competitive divisions it is expected that both players do what they think is best for winning.
Timing out is a recurring topic. Why? Because up til today we havent reached a collective agreed upon understanding of what the unwritten rules are regarding timing out. Although most of us agree with garyt1 on what the unwritten rule is. It is ok to time someone out without warning. It is not ok to time someone out if you ask them questions in chat that they need to use their time to answer. It is not ok to time someone out if you repeatedly exceeded the limit but didt get timed out.
Posted by Uber on 2020-08-22 19:21:16
It's ok to time someone out without warning, however it's considered a dick move. This is a community and every move affects your reputation.
Personally, I expect everyone to stall because it's the safest road to victory. I was also raised in another era where it was a bit more frowned upon, but 3 re-rolls team can't really afford otherwise unless they plan to get lucky every game. It's up to you to prevent being stalled on.
If you're taking a tough team like goblins, just tamper your winning expectations and have fun with it.
Personally, I expect everyone to stall because it's the safest road to victory. I was also raised in another era where it was a bit more frowned upon, but 3 re-rolls team can't really afford otherwise unless they plan to get lucky every game. It's up to you to prevent being stalled on.
If you're taking a tough team like goblins, just tamper your winning expectations and have fun with it.
Posted by MenonaLoco on 2020-08-23 11:17:30
Pirigin is right.
Posted by Grod on 2020-08-23 11:19:16
1. Dont be a di$&
2. Dont foul on t16 (see 1)
3. Dont whine about luck (see 1)
4. Dont give up or concede (see 1)
5. Dont take it too seriously, its a game (see 1)
6. Dont be a dwarf coach (see 1)
7. If you ARE a dwarf coach and you are playing against a stunty team, dont stall (see 1)
8. Dont time out (seriously, see 1)
9. Actually, in general, if you are unsure, just think about point 1.
2. Dont foul on t16 (see 1)
3. Dont whine about luck (see 1)
4. Dont give up or concede (see 1)
5. Dont take it too seriously, its a game (see 1)
6. Dont be a dwarf coach (see 1)
7. If you ARE a dwarf coach and you are playing against a stunty team, dont stall (see 1)
8. Dont time out (seriously, see 1)
9. Actually, in general, if you are unsure, just think about point 1.
Posted by koadah on 2020-08-23 14:20:13
The problem is Grod, people have different ideas about what being a dick means.
I disagree with some points on your list.
I would definitely have different 'rules' for different situations.
There is no such thing as "common sense".
I disagree with some points on your list.
I would definitely have different 'rules' for different situations.
There is no such thing as "common sense".
Posted by ramchop on 2020-08-25 11:43:56
10. Premature "gg" (see 4 and 1)
Posted by Balle2000 on 2020-08-25 12:50:53
The problem is koadah,
Posted by Balle2000 on 2020-08-25 12:52:01
"Unwritten rules and expectations" ...
... proceeded by lots of written things.
... proceeded by lots of written things.