Posted by Beanchilla on 2016-03-23 07:24:30

Should I carry more people on my team to defend against this? I'm worried about that raising my TV up higher than it should be but if it maybe it's worth it?

Posted by Rbthma on 2016-03-23 07:28:03

I'm no expert with Skaven, but based on similar casualty counts I get with elves it seemed you just got unlucky - I thought you did a decent job of keeping you rats out of tackle-zones. 39 blocks against isn't especially high.

Posted by Wreckage on 2016-03-23 07:34:23

Some thoughts:
I could tell you that there was too much contact going on but you probably know that yourself.
Your question is probably aimed at how to avoid that.
It's generally right to try to seek contact when you have a shot at the ball. Which is what you did.

It's just that this isn't a situation you want to be going on for an extended time.
You kinda just want to sweep in with the gutters, pick up the ball and finish things.

Like in turn 4, you just leave the ball on the ground. Don't do that. Pick up, secure or score. Take a count of your players before you start moving. Consider what you need to do that. Then do it. Run into zones to pick it up if needs to be. It's all for nothing if you don't finish with the ball secured or scoring. Don't bother worrying about probability.

I don't know if you are aware of this but up to this point you have the upper hand. Basically you scored and are about to steal the ball again.
If you succeed you win.


The only problem is that if you don't succeed your players being tied up all over the place means you'll suffer heavy losses.
You don't secure the ball and suffer heavy losses.

If you don't want getting tied up cause you to lose the game, I suggest to try a sturdier race than skaven ;).

A bigger squad helps to divert the injuries on linos and to keep the stars save.

Posted by Strider84 on 2016-03-23 07:36:00

I always hav 13 ideally 14 players on my skaven teams. That also helps with fouling. Dont worry about tv too much. A rat is just 50. Especially if you then play games up in tv ;-)

Posted by Beanchilla on 2016-03-23 07:43:24

I'll have to snag a couple more linerats in the future just to be safe.

Thanks for your advice wreckage. I really do need to be more careful about getting tied up. I really love Skaven overall and want to get better with them haha.

Any tips for avoiding getting tied up? I feel like dodging out of everything is just reacting to the situation and that's probably not the best and it'll eat up rerolls on anyone besides runners.

Just positioning? Like trying to keep them in the center?
You're right about risky though. I'm watching Azure's last game right now and it's insane but it works haha.

Posted by awambawamb on 2016-03-23 08:26:44

I'd drop the passed and develop a gutter for that; with Ag4 he can do the job fairly well, get Leader on a lino as first double.
should save some TV...

Posted by Beanchilla on 2016-03-23 08:33:44

I'll grab leader. That's a good idea.

I am really attached to my thrower though. What makes you think I should pass him? With ST 3, pass, sh and block I think he's really close to being an awesome unit. MA8 isn't bad either.

I don't know though... That's a tough call. I have a hard time cutting people from my teams haha.

Posted by Wreckage on 2016-03-23 09:33:49

Just had a look at Azures Skaven game and it's truly humbling. It would take a lot of time to express everything that is going on there.

I'm gonna say instead it's much more focused on blocking than what I could grasp from your game.
Mind you, regardless Azure might have failed there and you might have succeeded in your game just given a little different dice.

I think the level on which most coaches play here and you probably too isn't one where obvious mistakes are made. The level is generally quite high. Room for improvement is more with the subtle things. And with Azures Skaven you just see so many of those.
The way how he constantly improves his position via blocking. Mind you you see he isn't hellbent on dodging out anywhere. He takes the situation as it is and makes the best out of it. Dealing blocks, giving as few as possible.
You can see so many fine things, protection of Gutters early on, locking the Undead in spacially, foul targeting on the most lethal removal threat, then look for instance at turn 7 of the first half, the beautifully executed ball cover. Thats something that requires planning:
The turn starts with a gutter and a lino locked in the opposing half.
A skaven lineman is next to the gutter also in several zones.
A lonesome nother lino stands a bit closer to the endzone. Now he could pass to him with the gutter close to the ball, but he doesn't. Instead he dodges out and moves RIGHT NEXT to the lino. He starts with taking the Wight out which is the biggest threat down there and he takes up precisely the maximum distance his ag6 can pass on a 2+. (Which is the same as an ag5+ could) Of course the ag5 couldn't just dodge into two tacklezones as easily and pick the ball up, but he can and he plays very concious of it. You see how he uses his blitzer and the passing gutter to formation a wall around the gutter? And how he only moves the lino away from the gutter after the pass when he knows it was sucessful? And how the blitzer forms extra cover for the chance of a fumble?
As he slowly moves other pieces out of tackle-zones he uses them to reinforce his newly constructed screen. Chastitiy VI seems to be last on the list or perhaps not at all, but that's ok because he ties up two of the only three players that could get dangerous to him. And all this while he is already relatively save. We see a wonderfully executed blitz from Prez here and the dice to show for as teh carrier goes down.
And this is a typical example of where things would spin out of control for most coaches. All the planning, all the preparation, so much that could go wrong and so little that actually does.
But here we have a wight breaking through and creating lots of havoc. But because he is the only one that can even get remotely close to the ball, Prez can't do anything but watch how Azure simple picks the ball up again.

Posted by JellyBelly on 2016-03-23 12:06:00

39 blocks against doesn't seem excessive. If you only give your opponent 1 block and blitz per turn, they'll get 32, and you're not going to be able to dodge your linerats away every turn. Seems to me you were a bit unlucky. Main thing is to keep your GRs out if trouble, while the linerats bog down your opponent.

Posted by Medon on 2016-03-23 13:31:31

One tip to avoid blocks: don't get up. MA7 players on the ground are quite dangerous as they can still move pretty far. So they will be guarded most of the time, which gives your GRs quite some freedom without receiving any blocks by the linerats.

Posted by Beanchilla on 2016-03-23 16:03:19

Thanks for the tips. I knew Azure was killing it but that makes me appreciate it even more. I'll have to watch some more replays and get some ideas. I do think I need to focus on killing the guys who are lethal to me as much as possible and I don't foul enough.

I'm glad I'm not giving away an excruciating amount of blocks at least haha. Thanks for the tips!