Malmir
Joined: May 20, 2008
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 Posted:
Oct 23, 2023 - 06:59 |
 
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Right going to have a go at new vamps - I've been back through this thread looking for clarity on how bloodlust works now, but can't find it clearly stated anywhere. Please help... |
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HimalayaP1C7
Joined: Feb 03, 2021
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| Posted:
Oct 23, 2023 - 08:14 |
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tussock
Joined: May 29, 2011
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Oct 23, 2023 - 08:15 |
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Like old bloodlust, but biting is optional, and if you don't bite you lose your TZ and end your team turn, rather than leaving the field and ending your team turn like the old rule. |
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Malmir
Joined: May 20, 2008
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| Posted:
Oct 23, 2023 - 18:43 |
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Gridironman
Joined: Mar 18, 2022
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Oct 24, 2023 - 03:15 |
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I like just not burning a RR and blitzing last. If I am confused I will let it ride without a tacklezone or skills. I feel like when I recently played an imperial team in Blackbox that I had an unfair advantage. If anything, Imperials need a buff in terms of lineman Av going from 8 to 9 and Throwers receiving sure hands OR Pass 2+ |
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An Amorican Nuffler that bashed in his youth. |
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Sp00keh
Joined: Dec 06, 2011
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Oct 24, 2023 - 10:00 |
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Vamps are harsh for Imp Nob, as they depend a lot on their annoying defensive skills that vamps can simply switch off |
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Gridironman
Joined: Mar 18, 2022
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Oct 24, 2023 - 11:16 |
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I believe that all elf teams, Skaven, and vampires (perhaps Underworld Alliance) negate a lot of what imperial nobles' pitch control game.
I am a very average player, but vampires seem very intuitive to learn in reference to tier 1 teams even though the Vampires even in their current form are decidedly not tier 1.
I may decide to forego pro on my throwers and catchers. I will incorporate pro on my blitzers.
I believe that I am very well suited to Vampires because I am RR retentive as a player. In my second match I had 4 RRs on turn 6 and abused my much better positioned opponent with elfing, 1 die blitzing & strength BS. I did not need to RR much but they were in the back pocket. I by no means earned the win, but I was gifted the win. The important thing was that the team allowed me an opportunity to win that should not have been possible.
I will roster 14 players eventually with an apothecary, 3 RR, 1 Assistant Coach, and 1 Cheerleader.
Please note, that the following skill order is not meant to infer that all these skills will be taken, but are in order of priority.
x2 passers
Block
Dodge
Leader
Stat
Tackle
Cannoneer
x2 Blitzers
Block
Dodge
Tackle
Pro
Stat
Leap
x2 Catchers
Sprint
Block
Dodge
Leap
Sidestep
Stat
x8 Thralls
Random General
Random General
Random General
Random General
Random General
Random General
x0 Vargheist
Optionally: Once my Blitzers earn the Pro Skill I can go down to 7 Thralls and x1 Vargheist because the worst that can happen is that I eat thralls into being badly hurt if not stunned.
Option 2: x1 Catcher & 9 linemen (x0 Vargheist). If the TV outpaces skill utility I may be forced to limit my postional players.
Vargheist
Block
Juggernaut
Break Tackle
Dodge
Stat
Pro
I will always move my unmarked thralls first in all these scenarios. There are few times in which I would choose to feast.
x1 times per turn, I will need to use the ballcarrier to score, handoff/pass to a scoring threat, and advance the ball.
I will always be okay with the concept of losing my skills + tackle zones w/ my last move each turn being the player I elect to blitz with even if I have the option to feast--I will decline to feast in this instance.
If I am still able to move, I will either attempt to tag to my advantage or 1 die (Ideally x2 opposing players if my linemen fodder cannot reduce the opponents to 1 die scenarios) a ST4 or higher piece with the option to hypnotize. I will continue doing so until I incur a turnover. I do not mind if the opposing coach marks to knock down one or more vampires because they will overload themselves and lose defensive formation integrity.
I need to resolve to be willing to score on turn 7 rather than 2-1 grinding because I want x2 turns to avoid quad-skulling away a score unless victory is highly likely due to my opponent being diced.
I have made Vampire errors in both my matches, but I feel that I can have a vampire heavy roster that can be annoying.
What does the forum think of my planning? Should I take guard as a double for my passers, as a primary for my blitzers, and as a primary for my potential Vargheist for instance? Maybe, I really need to avoid having x6 vampires relative to only x8 thralls? Blitzer Vampires with the Guard & Defensive skills? What other things can you think of for my team planning?
I feel that this team is low tier, but if played correctly can beat tier 1 teams consistently.
Pennsylvania Kashas team page: https://fumbbl.com/p/team?op=view&team_id=1148040
All current team general manager planning is written into the player's bios.
Note: A Kasha is a Japanese fire cat demon likely derived from Buddhism by way of India that believes in the demonic spirit called the Rakhasa. |
_________________
An Amorican Nuffler that bashed in his youth.
Last edited by Gridironman on %b %24, %2023 - %12:%Oct; edited 1 time in total |
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Sp00keh
Joined: Dec 06, 2011
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Oct 24, 2023 - 12:50 |
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"I believe that I am very well suited to Vampires because I am RR retentive as a player"
Well.... BB2020 allows multiple RRs a turn now, and Vamps are one of the best placed to take advantage of that, with a mega turn where you burn all your resources and steal the ball
Also, it can be a good idea to RR bloodlust if you have plenty to spare. It saves you biting thralls, allows a less strictly planned turn, you can be looser and more aggressive or move faster up the pitch
Or rather, it means you don't necessarily need to readjust your plan for the turn to make it safer. you can continue with the bold plan, it's just gonna cost you more now
Not biting and losing your tacklezones is a great option to have, but the more they skillup (block and dodge) the more they have to lose when they get hit.
Although, I don't know how often opponents are gonna hit a bonehead vamp, they should hopefully have other things to worry about instead
Throwers - don't take 2x Leader. I wouldn't take any other passing skills, they're too important players to be focused on passing
Blitzers - I don't think I'd take Leap. Getting past a screen is what Gaze is for
Runners - I wouldn't prioritise Sprint, at all. Sidestep has functionally a similar benefit when attempting 1turns, and is overall much better in other ways. Again I wouldn't take Leap
Out of all the vamps to take Pro, the Runners are probably the best candidate
Stats on vamps - yes, but which? STR is too expensive, AGI is difficult to get. +AV for 10k is a bargain. The answer is: take +MV
Thralls - you want 1x Kicker, and the rest ideally get Wrestle. Block also good. But yes, random rolls only
Dirty player for 10k is good as a deterrent, even if you never use him because you don't want to risk losing a thrall to the ref
Varg x0 - fair enough. Consider Frenzy on a Blitzer then, for the surfing options. Blitzer can get Sidestep first to protect against countersurf
Varg Block vs Juggs - I would take one or the other, not both. You've also forgot Mighty Blow (and on the Blitzers)
Block Dodge Pro Stat makes him very expensive
Basing Str4 players to Gaze them is risky. they'll just hit you back for free
Scoring Turn7 isn't definitively critical. If you have a thrall there, you don't need to
Guard on Throwers, no I wouldn't bother. Maybe yes on the Blitzer / Varg, but they've got several other skills to get first
6x Vamps, Hmmm. I'm playing with 3+varg and don't feel comfortable taking many more. I'd suggest growing the qty only very gradually |
Last edited by Sp00keh on %b %24, %2023 - %13:%Oct; edited 1 time in total |
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Gridironman
Joined: Mar 18, 2022
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Oct 24, 2023 - 13:22 |
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I have leader listed as last on my slower developing thrower, but will likely select leader earlier than listed if the first thrower dies.
Noting to drop cannoneer based on the suggestion that throwing needs to be deemphasized.
Dropping leap on blitzers
I will likely retain the skills for the Vampire Runner as listed above, because I may not always want to field her because I can explicitly use her for OTT.
EDIT: I should note that my second catcher will likely be fielded (x5 vampires and x6 thralls, so very much against most people's preferences.) She will take these skills in this order-
Block
Dodge
Tackle
Stat
Sidestep
Sprint
I would very much prefer Mv as you noted I would list my wish list as so-
Mv
Av
Ag
St
Pa
A roughdraft had me list On chosen skill kicker w/5 random general skills on the thrall--I will deviate back to that as suggested
Similarly, my roughdraft had a chosen skill dirty player w/5 random general skills on a thrall--I will deviate back to that as well.
Question, should I have all the others take a chosen primary wrestle and then have 5 random generals for the remaining thralls?
I will likely spam sidestep instead of leap, based on one of your entries.
New Varg
Juggernaut
Mighty Blow
Pro
Break Tackle
Stat
Block
I will reconsider basing with vampires at all, but will always move the non-blitzing vampires after I blitz.
Agreed, a thrall is worth a badly hurt for a score on turn 8--even in the first half.
I will not remediate guard onto throwers then.
I will likely lose 3 games in a row and conclude then that I need to go 5 vampires and 9 thralls.
I've just witnessed/participated in 5 straight Vampire matches--all vampire wins. Notable given the topic. |
_________________
An Amorican Nuffler that bashed in his youth.
Last edited by Gridironman on %b %24, %2023 - %13:%Oct; edited 1 time in total |
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Sp00keh
Joined: Dec 06, 2011
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Oct 24, 2023 - 13:33 |
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For thralls, no I'd still stick with random generals
They only need to (annoyingly) get the MVP and then you can roll it. drop the ones you don't want, replace them
It's just, you're now only looking for 4 out of 12 'ideal' skills for 10k each
There's others that are useful for 10k, eg Tackle, Fend are 'ok'
Probably half of them are 'meh' or 'bad'
If you don't have the budget to replace them yet, don't roll the skill yet
If you've got plenty of budget, there's not actually much else to spend your gold on
If you have a random skill kicker, and he dies, and your team has grown used to using Kick, and you have another Thrall with 6+ spp, then I'd consider buying it as a 20k skill. But otherwise, I'd just wait until you get one randomly
The team is expensive in TV, and you don't want to have excess bloat in the thralls, at all. TV on the vamps is worth so much more than TV on the thralls
Skaven can keep a specialist 1turner on the bench and field a linerat, because gutters are so fragile yet you have 4 of them
But vamps, I wouldn't park a Runner on the bench and field a Thrall, especially a skilled-up Runner. They're tougher, and have regen, and it means you're not able to use their Gaze
Sidestep with Block Dodge (eg elf blitzer) can be extremely annoying. When they've got STR4, it's even better, so yea it's a good one to spam |
Last edited by Sp00keh on %b %24, %2023 - %13:%Oct; edited 1 time in total |
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Gridironman
Joined: Mar 18, 2022
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| Posted:
Oct 24, 2023 - 13:39 |
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I will remediate back to 6 random general thralls on all my thralls.
I will need to probably reconsider the purpose built OTT runner since it is better off being fielded.
Current Vampire Blitzer skill order
Block
Dodge
Tackle
Pro
Stat
Sidestep
Would an ideal skill order on a vampire blitzer look like this-
Block
Dodge
Pro
Sidestep
Tackle
Stat |
_________________
An Amorican Nuffler that bashed in his youth. |
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Sp00keh
Joined: Dec 06, 2011
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| Posted:
Oct 24, 2023 - 13:40 |
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Both options are good, the true answer is going to depend on the rest of your team + your playstyle & preferences |
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Gridironman
Joined: Mar 18, 2022
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| Posted:
Oct 24, 2023 - 13:43 |
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Thank you, this has helped a lot. I think I will attempt going Blodge then pro followed by sidestep. You helped me a lot. I will see how things work out and I will report back how disastrously the x5 vampires play. |
_________________
An Amorican Nuffler that bashed in his youth. |
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Sp00keh
Joined: Dec 06, 2011
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Oct 24, 2023 - 13:49 |
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Wait - did you mean 6x random general skills *per thrall*? (as a goal)
I would expect them to only ever have 0 or 1 skills. They're too fragile really to get much further
Probably the ideal is Wrestle for 10k, then +AV for 10k, but few of them will survive this long
-- And, if I've helped then you're welcome. It's only my opinion, and I'm not any real expert in these new vamps anyway |
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Gridironman
Joined: Mar 18, 2022
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Oct 24, 2023 - 14:28 |
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No, I just have an order of operations set in place with skill priority. |
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An Amorican Nuffler that bashed in his youth. |
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