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Sp00keh



Joined: Dec 06, 2011

Post   Posted: Jul 06, 2020 - 23:20 Reply with quote Back to top

maybe they should not be in the same tourneys then, if one has seasons and one doesnt
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Jul 06, 2020 - 23:22 Reply with quote Back to top

In theory, if the rule were implemented in both divisions it could reduce the TV difference between Ranked and Box teams in Majors.

@Joost: I understand you, and I would love to play very high TV as well, but as you know, some races are way better at high TV than other ones.
That's true even at low TV, but high TV games can swing even more wildly if you lose a very developed player.
So, playing at a lower TV than high (1700 would not be terribly low in my opinion, many teams can be fun at that TV) would mean a compromise so you would not play vs teams way stronger than yours.
For example, I know you like to play high TV Lizardmen, when you find Chaos or Nurgle high TV I don't think you have much fun vs Clawmb, you could face Chaos or Nurgle at lower TV and have more winning chances (and I don't want either to make Nurgle or Chaos unplayable vs Lizardmen). It's a compromise between super farm and more balance, a bit less farm and more balance, at least in theory.
If 1700 is still too low for people's taste, well we could increase it, maybe 1800, still better than 2400.
ArthurWynne



Joined: Sep 23, 2015

Post   Posted: Jul 06, 2020 - 23:53 Reply with quote Back to top

I think many people are in the same position as you there, Joost.

It's not a truism that the game is less fun or less balanced at TV 2000+.
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Jul 07, 2020 - 00:00 Reply with quote Back to top

Then why Season rule has been written?
I know it's optional, but it should have a purpose.
I guess it's to encourage trimming the teams a bit to make games more balanced.
The_Murker



Joined: Jan 30, 2011

Post   Posted: Jul 07, 2020 - 02:05 Reply with quote Back to top

BlackBox is as BlackBox does.

I think it would be epic to have a new competitive division based solely on the Seasons rule. Something new would attract many interested FUMBBLers, like Box Trophy did. I think the only 'matchmaking' formula required would be to ensure teams in their first season were paired only against other teams in their first season, and after that, no holds barred.

Box could make draws on the half hour marks, and the Seasonal league could draw on the 15's and 45's. (or simply overlap, if traffic were way up. I'm sure matchmaker could be programmed smart enough for you to be able to enter BOTH draws, and just be awarded one match, based on the activations in both leagues)

The teams in this division could have a tag which lists the number of seasons they have completed, and I'm sure many people would compete for the right to say they have 'The most successful 3rd season of all time for orks", or the "Highest scoring skaven team ever in their first season.(or fourth, whatever)

I do like box trophy, but the commitment is massive. With seasons, I feel every one off match would kind of mean something, and I would always have a fresh season to look forward to, if things went pear-shaped at any point. Less team recycling.

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Grod



Joined: Sep 30, 2003

Post   Posted: Jul 07, 2020 - 03:16 Reply with quote Back to top

Seasons is not just a way of having a tv cap and aging, it also puts a floor under tv, helps with rebuilding and gives you a chance to re-design a team rather than start a new one from scratch.

Seasons in box might make it more attractive to run the squishy teams - they get a chance to rebuild at the end of the season instead of permanently having 6 loner journeymen?

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ph0enyx13



Joined: Nov 14, 2015

Post   Posted: Jul 07, 2020 - 04:23 Reply with quote Back to top

Grod wrote:
Seasons is not just a way of having a tv cap and aging, it also puts a floor under tv, helps with rebuilding and gives you a chance to re-design a team rather than start a new one from scratch.

Seasons in box might make it more attractive to run the squishy teams - they get a chance to rebuild at the end of the season instead of permanently having 6 loner journeymen?


I see this as the biggest pro for seasons.
fidius



Joined: Jun 17, 2011

Post   Posted: Jul 07, 2020 - 05:15 Reply with quote Back to top

We switched to seasons in our TT league in 2016 because we wanted to stick to offical lrules as much as possible. It was so bad, a huge group of the seasoned vets left permanently (including me, although for additional reasons unrelated to the rules change).

It's an interesting thought experiment, but ultimately seasons is a bad solution to an imaginary problem. At least from the perspective of permanent progression league players (such is Box). Murker is right, you'd kind of need a new league, which with the playerbase here I don't see happening.
Verminardo



Joined: Sep 27, 2006

Post   Posted: Jul 07, 2020 - 12:20 Reply with quote Back to top

I think the Box would probably benefit but Fumbbl official tournaments would have even less participants than today, with Box no longer viable at all for team building (though arguably, Box is already not viable for team building, at least for Majors).
Dalfort



Joined: Jun 23, 2008

Post   Posted: Jul 07, 2020 - 12:22 Reply with quote Back to top

Seasons, imho, do not fit perpetual leagues like Ranked or Box. The old Faction division had rounds of 2 weeks, where 20 teams had 10 points scoring games and could play any number of other games (we usually referred to them as recovery games...). In this format where you activated your single Faction division team I can see the appeal and suitable implementation.

I am fully aware that Faction is dead, but, long live Faction! Very Happy

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MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Jul 07, 2020 - 12:55 Reply with quote Back to top

Box is already not the best division to build teams for Majors, if you want to build a high TV team, Ranked is better.
And yes, ideally we could have a specific division with Seasons + automatic scheduler, but we lack the coachbase to support another division, this is why I suggested Box.
As an aside, Season rule is not, in my opinion, the best solution to keep teams' growth in check, but it's an official (albeit optional) rule, so I suggested it.
Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Post   Posted: Jul 07, 2020 - 17:39 Reply with quote Back to top

i agree personally, that said - we should probably see if the rumours about the new edition are true, before asking christer to code something that will be thrown in the bin 4 months later

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Last edited by Garion on Jul 07, 2020 - 18:29; edited 1 time in total
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Jul 07, 2020 - 17:52 Reply with quote Back to top

If a new ruleset/supplement is going to be released with a new Ageing/Seasons rule, it would be better to wait, of course.
I didn't know that.
Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Post   Posted: Jul 07, 2020 - 18:08 Reply with quote Back to top

MattDakka wrote:
If a new ruleset/supplement is going to be released with a new Ageing/Seasons rule, it would be better to wait, of course.
I didn't know that.


No on knows for sure, but the rumour mill has been talking about a totally new edition for a while now.

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stowelly



Joined: Mar 16, 2017

Post   Posted: Jul 07, 2020 - 18:48 Reply with quote Back to top

I do quite like the seasons rule in TT leagues. think this would work well in Box or a Box like environment,
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