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koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Aug 08, 2020 - 18:35 Reply with quote Back to top

MattDakka wrote:

People playing for fun could still do it in League division (they could migrate from R to L), maybe without Seasons (so, they would not have to redraft, if they like super high TV teams).
Nobody said they must stop playing.
Also, if they don't play competitively (for whatever reasons, not implying they are stupid or noobs, just, they don't care/are not interested in competitive play) then they should do it in League, an unranked non-competitive division.
Non-competitive coaches should not play in competitive division.


I do think that the game is moving more towards the competitive, but I don't think that everyone wants it to be quite as competitive as you do. Wink

Bring back the "Transfer to League" button \o/. FTW!

Remember though that it is harder to find an open gamefinder match in League. Especially if teams are still not allowed to play across rulesets..
However it will also become harder to find games in the competitive division if a lot of people jump ship.

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[SL] Rumble - 16 team KO - Brand new teams only - ALWAYS recruiting
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Aug 08, 2020 - 18:41 Reply with quote Back to top

Foad wrote:
My concern is around the transition, specifically relating to current user run leagues [L] in progress.

I was in a stunty league many years ago when we there were user run leagues in the division which was amazing (as stunty league is). There was then a point at some stage where someone was given mandate to look after stunty, and "fixed" all the rosters. There was no community discussion and no warning. One day it just happened. From memory a whole heap of players picked up Loner or Secret Weapon, which broke the division. It caused many of the rosters to have significant changes and killed the league mid season. From memory, the season didn't finish and there wasn't another one.

I approached the guy that did it in IRC (I can't even remember his name), and he was "Respect mah authorotaaa!". His attitude was that he had the cape now, so he got to make arbitrary decisions as a dictator, and if we didn't like it then we could choose to not play stunty. He thought it was funny that our league died.

This totally burnt me on stunty league.

Now the changes sucked, but from memory 90% of the league was nurglings and tzeentch (which were both strong teams), so I can live with those rosters getting nerfed if balance was required. The problem for me was that this was implemented with zero warning.

There is little impact if this happens in [R] or [B] as there are no user run tournaments for these, but implementing this in [L] without an option for turning if off could really hurt leagues.

I'd suggest that [L] be left as open as possible with "Seasons" functionality as an option (if possible). If this can't be done for functionality reasons, then a published transition date for the [L] division would be great so tournament organisers could plan ahead.


The obvious approach to league would be to have seasons switched off for the league division. Commishes would then switch seasons on when/if they were ready.

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[SL] Rumble - 16 team KO - Brand new teams only - ALWAYS recruiting
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Aug 08, 2020 - 19:07 Reply with quote Back to top

koadah wrote:

Remember though that it is harder to find an open gamefinder match in League. Especially if teams are still not allowed to play across rulesets..
However it will also become harder to find games in the competitive division if a lot of people jump ship.

Well, there could be a League scheduler, but I know it won't happen.
I can't find games in SL due to people picking there.

If people playing League are many, then they should have no issue finding a game, good for them, a win for League coaches.

If people playing League are few, then not having them in competitive division will not make a big difference, so, not a big loss for hardcore coaches.
mister__joshua



Joined: Jun 20, 2007

Post   Posted: Aug 08, 2020 - 19:19
FUMBBL Staff
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@paradocks: I don’t agree it destroys fluff. Blood bowl AND real life sport history is littered with famous old teams of the past. In that vein, I think the following suggestion might be cool:

On the team page, replace the past players link with ‘Past Seasons’. This link would contain the roster for the season, the W/d/l record etc. The previous games section could also be broken down by season.

This would give people a really cool reference point, and we could end up referring to teams of legend like ‘The Season 7 Raiders were one of the greats’. The more you could add to this the better. Tournament wins for that season. Stats for the season. A season on season comparison. The ability to play as past seasons teams in non-competitive one off games... lots of possibilities.

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neubau



Joined: Nov 12, 2016

Post   Posted: Aug 08, 2020 - 19:47 Reply with quote Back to top

@joshua: the past seasons thing in team bios is an amazing idea!

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koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Aug 08, 2020 - 20:10 Reply with quote Back to top

MattDakka wrote:
koadah wrote:

Remember though that it is harder to find an open gamefinder match in League. Especially if teams are still not allowed to play across rulesets..
However it will also become harder to find games in the competitive division if a lot of people jump ship.

Well, there could be a League scheduler, but I know it won't happen.
I can't find games in SL due to people picking there.

If people playing League are many, then they should have no issue finding a game, good for them, a win for League coaches.

If people playing League are few, then not having them in competitive division will not make a big difference, so, not a big loss for hardcore coaches.


Getting a game would be easier if more teams came across to league. Though they would still be split by ruleset. Some people arrange games vs league opponents without going via gamefinder.
Others, I assume, only play league games and NAF.

Even before the lockdowns more people played in the League division than any other division. Since the lockdowns started, more people play in the League division than in Ranked and Box combined.
People leaving R/B may not come to League, they may just quit.

Almost all your [SL] teams have pretty unbalanced win/loss records. I'm not at all surprised if people dodge you. You're a shark. Wink
If you're really so well'ard come and prevent that Geggster feller from carrying off so many of our trophies. Twisted Evil

Pffft. Call yerself "competitive"? In my book, a truly competitive coach would want to be called Champion! Wink

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[SL] Rumble - 16 team KO - Brand new teams only - ALWAYS recruiting
Uedder



Joined: Aug 03, 2010

Post   Posted: Aug 08, 2020 - 20:39 Reply with quote Back to top

GameFinder is not going away. That's been made clear. Dakka please put your heart at rest.
Your point was made. Multiple times. Over the years.

Seasons are coming, most likely with a hard cap on redraft money. Crazy high TV is most likely gone and that's by rule design.

I think these are all good things, even if do love my bloat teams.

It's pointless to debate things that cannot be changed.
Rather, should the hard cap for draft be enrofced or not? How many games a season? How do tourneys interact with that?
I'd say a 15-20 games season would work. With a hard cap.
Otherwise 10 games+tournaments would be borderline and would mitigate the leveling ground of seasons, which means it's worse for newcomers. But would have the added benefit of giving a reward to all teams who enter tournaments (as in more money to redraft) which I think is a good thing.
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Aug 08, 2020 - 20:50 Reply with quote Back to top

Things could be changed, what is hard to change is the mindset of picker people here. Smile
Bloated teams are better gone, high TV games were not balanced, I welcome season redraft.
steinerp



Joined: Sep 18, 2005

Post   Posted: Aug 08, 2020 - 21:06 Reply with quote Back to top

koadah wrote:

It looks as though you are trying to get your teams out of redrafting. Wink

I don't think that that is the way that things are going.


To some degree you are of course right but I don't believe that I am the only coach out there like this. I actually believe my win % would increase under a redrafting format (unless I gave MattDakka the middle finger and redraft my bloated players until they made legend) but the fun level would decline. And I care more about fun than CR.
mrt1212



Joined: Feb 26, 2013

Post   Posted: Aug 08, 2020 - 21:07 Reply with quote Back to top

MattDakka wrote:
Things could be changed, what is hard to change is the mindset of picker people here. Smile
Bloated teams are better gone, high TV games were not balanced, I welcome season redraft.


Nuffle Christ, have some self awareness Dakka.
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Aug 08, 2020 - 21:34 Reply with quote Back to top

steinerp wrote:
koadah wrote:

It looks as though you are trying to get your teams out of redrafting. Wink

I don't think that that is the way that things are going.


To some degree you are of course right but I don't believe that I am the only coach out there like this. I actually believe my win % would increase under a redrafting format (unless I gave MattDakka the middle finger and redraft my bloated players until they made legend) but the fun level would decline. And I care more about fun than CR.


Well, if "Competitive" has seasons an open League doesn't, that may bring us some more teams. Wink

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[SL] Rumble - 16 team KO - Brand new teams only - ALWAYS recruiting
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Aug 08, 2020 - 21:35 Reply with quote Back to top

MattDakka wrote:
Things could be changed, what is hard to change is the mindset of picker people here. Smile
Bloated teams are better gone, high TV games were not balanced, I welcome season redraft.


Picker people? That is you Matt! You know full well that when you activate for the Box you have a very strong chance of drawing a weaker coach. Probably with a weaker team. That's picking too! Mr. Green

You're a shark.

Show us your medals!

Even I've got a couple. Wink
Look at this feller!

Competitive my aris. Twisted Evil

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MrCushtie



Joined: Aug 10, 2018

Post   Posted: Aug 08, 2020 - 22:11 Reply with quote Back to top

As we've now got to 8 pages on the thread, probably a good time to mention that if you want to play full fat, 2000+ TV teams, you could come and play in DrDeath's RSL. You would have to contend with GW's skill choices, which aren't so much a preview of random skill assignment as "WTF were they thinking of?" but hey...

I hate Ranked with a passion (bitterness after getting picked over and over when I started off) but then I also don't like having to try to deal with high-TV teams in Box where there's four or five +ST monstrosities on a single roster. Now, I admit if I started rolling +ST like a boss, I'd want to keep those players too, but it feels to me that constraining them via seasons is probably good for everyone.

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snorkelwanted



Joined: Jun 04, 2019

Post   Posted: Aug 08, 2020 - 22:31 Reply with quote Back to top

@Christer

"Blackbox Trophy teams must, at least initially, be newly started. This could change once we have more experience with seasons and re-drafting. Perhaps later trophies could allow re-drafted teams too."

Interested in what the thinking was behind potentially allowing non-new teams in BBT? Or were you just spit balling?

I think splitting it into "BBT 1st season" and allowing people that have completed a BBT to reenter their group of 4 again into a "BBT 2nd+ Season" to see if they can match/beat their performance would be cool. But I can see how splitting it in two might cause issues with the people not wanting to commit to both and one ending with significantly less coaches in.
Tomay



Joined: Apr 26, 2008

Post   Posted: Aug 08, 2020 - 23:00 Reply with quote Back to top

Seasons are awesome. We have been running Seasons manually using an off site script in SWL since we moved to BB16. I personally think blood bowl is best played between 150-175 TV where positioning matters and its not just a battle of superstars and skill redundancy.

However, we did have to tweak the rebuy formulas with bonuses to accommodate our 7 game seasons and where we wanted to see team levels at. I hope that if FUMBBL implements seasons for league that we will be able to do the same.

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