| Poll |
| Streaming live your match on TwitchTV personal channel.... |
| Hey! Wait ! My opponent should ask mine consent! |
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30% |
[ 45 ] |
| Yes! I want to be an Internet Movie MegaStar! And pay me royalties! |
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13% |
[ 20 ] |
| GASP! Shocked! I will leave FUMBBL and internet and I will recover in an old Monastery |
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2% |
[ 4 ] |
| TwitchTV? what is TV? What is Internet? I know only www.fumbbl.com |
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7% |
[ 11 ] |
| I think it can be done or not, it does not hurt me at all... |
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38% |
[ 58 ] |
| Will trow a pie in face of .... (you chose the coach-name ;-) !!! |
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7% |
[ 11 ] |
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| Total Votes : 149 |
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JLeav
Joined: Sep 19, 2022
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 Posted:
May 29, 2023 - 21:54 |
 
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Here's a makeshift stapling of a bunch of thoughts I, a streamer and recent convert from Cyanide blood bowl to fumbbl, had while reading this whole forum.
I think the standard being that you tell your opponent that the match is being streamed is weird. It feels like you're trying to advertise your stream to your opponent, and in game chat is not the place for advertisements. I don't show the chat on stream, mostly because the overlay I made for fumbbl doesn't have space for it, but if someone is going to make a fool of themselves, I'll happily add a capture for it
A lot of coaches in bb2 aren't big chatters - not just the streamers. 80-90% of talk I got from opponents in bb2 beyond a hello was just dice whining because they left a 3+ for 2d on their ball. Fumbbl just has a different default than bb2 did with chatters. More dedicated coaches played fumbbl, and since they care more about the game (and there's less of them), chatting was much more natural.
Personally I don't care at all if an opponent joins my stream with or without my knowledge. It's a fun learning experience for me, my audience, and my opponent that way. Half the time when I know my opponent is watching I still give those tips of what I wouldn't want them to do because I forgot they told me they're in chat. On top of that there are things that I miss and times where I'll mention a bad play to see if someone is stream sniping. Or it's just me ranting about topics spreading from how the new errata still does not say what happens when Raiding Party steps someone onto the ball to why I should've put a player a tile to the left 6 turns ago.
As for the advantages of chat, I would say that 1 in maybe 2000 turns are actively improved by my chat. I generally do not trust chat to be better than me at blood bowl; as a viewer as well there are plenty more things that I miss compared to my own games. I would say that having a chat and other streamers to learn from has improved my play as a coach vastly quicker than I ever would alone.
So far I've tended to stay away from the forums because the ones I've read seems to just be based on trying to make drama over ??? . I won't deny that I may of just selected a few bad eggs from the forums, my sample isn't that large.
Streaming is good for the game and it's good for the site |
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Jaskier
Joined: Jul 25, 2017
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| Posted:
May 29, 2023 - 22:24 |
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| ramchop wrote: | One thing I don't understand about streamers are the ones who don't engage with the fumbbl community at all. No forum posts, no discord chat, minimal in game chat - and these are people who love to talk?
I only know of them from PC's podcast, and the odd Major title. |
some ppl have their own small community gathered around them |
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Storr
Joined: Mar 25, 2020
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| Posted:
May 29, 2023 - 22:48 |
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And also most forum and discord discussions are time consuming and fruitless |
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almic85
Joined: May 25, 2009
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| Posted:
May 29, 2023 - 22:57 |
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I still find it odd that there is a side chat going on in a live stream that is not visible to the other coach.
To me it’s still akin to sitting down for a game on table top and actively enraging with any spectators while the opponent is essentially prevented from doing the same.
My only touch point for people streaming things is the stuff my kid watches on kids YouTube where there is some talking head verbalising their inner monologue in a high pitched voice while they play some cheap mobile game. It’s more “infotainment†and less engaging with a live audience.
For us “old grognards†what’s the best way to get into this live streaming business?
Do I need to download another app (like twitch) to my phone?
Is there any way to do it for free? |
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Storr
Joined: Mar 25, 2020
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| Posted:
May 29, 2023 - 23:04 |
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C0ddlefish
Joined: Sep 17, 2019
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| Posted:
May 29, 2023 - 23:07 |
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@JLeav Thanks for explaining your viewpoint as a streamer. I was hoping someone would because it's not something I understand. Nearly everything you say seems reasonable.
I guess for me as someone who doesn't (won't ever) stream and rarely watches streams the bit I still struggle with is not informing your opponent. Absolutely you shouldn't be to seek permission or anything like that though.
You've said yourself you are already effectively planning for the opponent to be watching, so I don't understand the issue with simply saying "hello, by the way I'm streaming this game". No need for any more.
From what you've said it doesn't change how you play or commentate (if that's the right word?) Because you are already expecting that your opponent could be in your steam (openly or silently).
It feels like that's a better way to grow the community together, and selfishly maybe get you more subscribers (if that's a thing?).
The alternative is occasionally someone will feel a little 'used'. Again this may expose my lack of understanding of Streaming but presumably you play games to get bigger viewing figures to gain 'something'. Some will feel like they should be informed you are doing that.
For context: I recently found a couple of games streamed against me. One was latterly pointed out to me by the streamer in question which was very kind of them. I found them to be incredibly helpful to watch to get an idea of what others thought I was doing and what they were thinking as the game went on. I have no idea if there are loads more out there that I've missed. I'd have loved it if someone had said to me at the start, or even the end, "hey if you want to watch the game it'll be here" |
Last edited by C0ddlefish on %b %30, %2023 - %08:%May; edited 1 time in total |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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| Posted:
May 29, 2023 - 23:25 |
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| JLeav wrote: |
I think the standard being that you tell your opponent that the match is being streamed is weird. It feels like you're trying to advertise your stream to your opponent, and in game chat is not the place for advertisements. |
To me, it seems pretty rude to be streaming the game without letting the opponent know that they are being streamed.
But hey, I'm an old geezer.
| JLeav wrote: |
A lot of coaches in bb2 aren't big chatters - not just the streamers. 80-90% of talk I got from opponents in bb2 beyond a hello was just dice whining because they left a 3+ for 2d on their ball. Fumbbl just has a different default than bb2 did with chatters. More dedicated coaches played fumbbl, and since they care more about the game (and there's less of them), chatting was much more natural. |
To me, it seems kinda weird and rude that you'd be chatting to an audience and not the person that you are playing against.
Maybe I really am just too old for this shit.  |
_________________
O[L]C 2016 Swiss! - April ---- All Star Bowl - Teams of Stars - 2 more teams needed |
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Kondor
Joined: Apr 04, 2008
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| Posted:
May 30, 2023 - 06:36 |
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I would like to know if someone is streaming the game. I would not mind in most instances, but I would in a competitive match.
Just think of sitting at a table with 6 guys behind your opponent suggesting things to do. You may not take most comments, but if someone says. "Look! You can set up a chain surf." Or "Don't forget that guy has stand firm or side step."
I know it cannot be stopped but it really can give the other guy an advantage since it is no longer a 1 vs 1 match. |
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Verminardo
Joined: Sep 27, 2006
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| Posted:
May 30, 2023 - 08:11 |
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Do not underestimate streaming as a way to LEARN the game. I would say that's the norm today with just about any competitive online game. Streamers are teaching Blood Bowl to new coaches, new coaches come to play on Fumbbl and join things like the BBT, everybody wins. I've been pretty active on Fumbbl between c. 2012 and 2020, and during all that time there was but a trickle of new coaches. But when I play a Box match these days, more likely than not, I'll draw an opponent whose nickname I've never seen before, and when I check, sure enough, they've registered within the last 12 months. And most of these coaches know how to play Blood Bowl. They're maybe not quite as good as those who've been playing on Fumbbl for decades (which is why my win rate has improved although I'm rusty). But they are by and large pretty solid and certainly much better than I was, one year after joining Fumbbl. All of that's due to streaming I'm sure.
While I wasn't playing Blood Bowl I've been getting into TFT (a turn based auto-chess spin-off of League of Legends), got to Master rank this season and last, and I really couldn't have done it without watching a lot of streams. TFT has actual esports, with a couple 100k price money in the world championship, and they completely accept and encourage streaming even in competitive play. If you play an online game these days, I think it's basically understood that your opponents might be streaming.
And I gotta say, yes it took some time to adapt, and I've been called a boomer over my use of oldschool emotes (that's gen X to you, young man!) But I've really come to appreciate a good stream as both entertainment and resource.
As for coaching or backseat gaming, well maybe not in a tournament final, but certainly in any kind of ladder game, like the BBT, I think it's pretty much normal. If you want to coach effectively, you have to do it on competitive games. I don't really see how that's unfair. The one being coached is certainly not going to have someone play all 60 of their trophy games for them, they are just trying to improve. And the opponent, yes, will probably have a harder match than without the coach in the back seat, but probably still easier than facing the coach themselves, which might just as well have happened in the Box draw. (Yes, I get that the coach using their own account would slightly affect the opponent's rating gain or loss, but honestly, who cares?) |
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Verminardo
Joined: Sep 27, 2006
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| Posted:
May 30, 2023 - 08:50 |
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PS: I second everything AD and Jan-Erik have said. |
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JanMattys
Joined: Feb 29, 2004
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| Posted:
May 30, 2023 - 12:14 |
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| JimmyFantastic wrote: | | You shouldn't need to know ppl are watching to hold yourself to a decent standard. |
In light of the transcript in the Spiteful Timeout thread, I find this sentence extremely amusing. |
_________________
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JimmyFantastic
Joined: Feb 06, 2007
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| Posted:
May 30, 2023 - 13:02 |
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| JanMattys wrote: | | JimmyFantastic wrote: | | You shouldn't need to know ppl are watching to hold yourself to a decent standard. |
In light of the transcript in the Spiteful Timeout thread, I find this sentence extremely amusing. |
Lol. Transcript of entertainer entertaining sure is damning, yes. |
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Seany18
Joined: Mar 12, 2016
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| Posted:
May 30, 2023 - 15:26 |
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As someone who has streamed fumbbl before here are some points:
1. If you actually wanted to cheat you would just go in a voice call with your friend who you know is a good player and understands how you play the game instead of attempting to assess advice on the fly from people who most of the time not as strong players as the person streaming.
2. Fumbbl can be daunting to the uninitiated and if you can go online, see someone play try to follow along and ask what the symbols mean you are much more amenable to playing on fumbbl in the future.
3. I typically don't use in game chat whether I am streaming or not (unless it is someone I know) chatting there consists of banal whining where the only acceptable response is to placate perceived injustices. So streaming doesnt really detract from any ingame interaction you want to have people who want to use it do and those that don't don't regardless of whether they are streaming or not.
4. Consent, it is unreasonable to expect that you can make someone end their stream because you were matched with them and it is basically unenforceable. People here might not have experience with playing other games online but if you join a public lobby someone might be streaming it in many cases their name is a twitch url |
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Verminardo
Joined: Sep 27, 2006
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| Posted:
May 30, 2023 - 15:29 |
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Decent standard is indeed an interesting choice of words here.  The whole flaming / trolling thing is one approach that streamers can take to generating content. A bit like trash TV. Personally I prefer the ones that keep it cool and classy.
The issues around how to deal with insults and hate speech are the same as anywhere on the internets really, nothing unique to streaming. It's important to understand the subculture though, for example a streamer calling their opponent a rat can, depending on context, be meant as a compliment. |
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Verminardo
Joined: Sep 27, 2006
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| Posted:
May 30, 2023 - 15:36 |
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| Seany18 wrote: | | chatting there consists of banal whining where the only acceptable response is to placate perceived injustices |
That definitely happens and it is annoying. I placate only when it's really justified, otherwise I just stop engaging. I get that you are generalising to make your point (and for the punch line), fair enough, but I do think Fumbbl is better than you make it out to be. I've had a lot of games here, even with total strangers, that were way more fun because of chat than they would have otherwise been.
That being said, I don't particularly mind a silent opponent these days. Much preferrable to a whiny one for sure. |
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Gnomes are trash
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