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Poll
Do you risk it for a biscuit?
Yes - I strive to win
49%
 49%  [ 35 ]
No - I take a safe draw
9%
 9%  [ 7 ]
N/A - situational init
33%
 33%  [ 24 ]
Pie
7%
 7%  [ 5 ]
Total Votes : 71


RDaneel



Joined: Feb 24, 2023

Post   Posted: Oct 03, 2024 - 19:59 Reply with quote Back to top

it happened to me to play for CR in a period. And if someone play for CR i think is so obsessed for CR that if the alternative is a risk win vs a noob gaining +2CR, or lost with -25CR , sometime he can opt for a sure draw than an unsure win and limited damage.

This type of play very stressful and frustrating and can cause easy burnouts

That's why I stopped to play for CR and now I have applied Trophy

And that's is the reason why I believe that CR is "someway" linked to coach ability but not always
And that's why I think that is good to try to play always for the win and I think it should be given an extra point for Win in Trophy tournament for instances (+1,5 in spite 1) with respect a 0,5 draw
alea jacta est...

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JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Post   Posted: Oct 03, 2024 - 20:45 Reply with quote Back to top

CR, W%, trophies, what people say about you, blah blah blah, all of the above in any cocktail you like, it's all maps of a territory called "Coachingskillsylvania". All will steer you more right than wrong in general, but, uh, your mileage may vary.

The territory can be described lots of ways. These stats are not bad, but since the worst outcome is just annoying, this would be a good venue for the Benthamic approach.

How many hedons is a coach worth, per, uh, well, damn. Can't even see an interval that isn't painful to look at.

Okay, so what are we trying to measure here?

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BeanBelly



Joined: Nov 14, 2019

Post   Posted: Oct 03, 2024 - 20:51 Reply with quote Back to top

We are measuring desire.. ahem

Desire to Win! v's desire to safely Draw avoiding potential loss.

Potential loss of something like CR or Points or Pixels or Pride or Pleasure

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Nelphine



Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Post   Posted: Oct 03, 2024 - 21:30 Reply with quote Back to top

I think it really comes down to 'desire to win' vs 'desire not to lose'.

I personally wish we discouraged 'not losing' more, and shifted it to 'winning', but, different tastes and all that.
RDaneel



Joined: Feb 24, 2023

Post 18 Posted: Oct 03, 2024 - 22:48 Reply with quote Back to top

Nelphine wrote:
I think it really comes down to 'desire to win' vs 'desire not to lose'.

I personally wish we discouraged 'not losing' more, and shifted it to 'winning', but, different tastes and all that.


for sure everybody like to win but what is the final goal why do you play?

If you play "just for fun" don't play competitive. Play leagues.

So what's is the main goal of people who plays in competitive?
Win, fun, mine spps, kill many player, all these can be nice and fun targets
But...
If you play to maximize the CR....
ooooh...
welcome to the kingdom of the doom damned!


I have tried and i I failed burnout: play primarly to maximize your CR it is the right world to become crazy and obsessed.

Because in a game where there is the dice factor anyway you can win even 5 games in a row against noobs and if you are a Megastar you gain +2 or +3 points every game. Then you get the smack maybe for bad luck against an emerging star and you lose everything you gained in 5 matches. BUM!

If on the other hand you play an RRR; a tournament, a league, Trophy, i would say a mixed way, you don't care about the CR and hope maybe to win the qualifying rounds, or maybe get top 10 in a Trophy with your squad.

And you play more relaxed also in competitive division because you're not trying to become top of the rankings.

Trophy for me is very competitive but since i decide to play Trophy without care on CR but only on the score I play more relaxed, I don't cry if I lose 2 CR or 10 CR as long as I can finish the tournament maybe trying to have a 55% win rate and get a good position, and maybe with a team out of 20 I can even participate in the Gauntlet. Jackpot

And I play to win EVEN IF i risk to lose like in my last game with Black Orcs (truly graced by my Gnomesque opponent)


If you play with the CR obsession you have to play a lot of games and have a win rate of 80% if you want to become Legend.

There were days when I would win 4 games in a row then lose one and lose the whole CR and in the evening I would be mad with rage.

You can't play this game like that. This leads to insanity.

I just don't play it for CR anymore: I try to win them all then if I don't succeed amen nobody dies, the goal isn't CR it's trying to play well in tournaments and leagues. and have fun at this game. It doesn't have to become an obsession!
If i lose a game but i fight till the end trying to win well... i am happy
The more if i played this game with tiers 3-4 team (in this sense my 2-1 losted game with my Goblins vs Malmir's Ogres was a crazy games but at the end super fun).

of course this does not mean you have to play sloppy and unkempt in the competitive division. You always have to try to play well and maybe the goal of winning makes you develop some interesting game fantasies that you wouldn't have the courage to tackle if you were only playing for CR and therefore with the goal of ‘losing very rarely’.

I have written my usual pamphlet... I know you hate me for this... I talk a lot
&-)

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To judge a man, one must at least know the secret of his thoughts, his misfortunes, his emotions, Balzac
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Oct 03, 2024 - 23:01 Reply with quote Back to top

RDaneel wrote:

If you play "just for fun" don't play competitive. Play leagues.


Ha ha!

You almost make me want to play just to spite you.
Almost. Twisted Evil

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Nelphine



Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Post   Posted: Oct 03, 2024 - 23:15 Reply with quote Back to top

i mean, i play leagues so that i can play competitive matches, because competitive isn't Razz (more accurately, box isn't)
RDaneel



Joined: Feb 24, 2023

Post   Posted: Oct 04, 2024 - 00:25 Reply with quote Back to top

koadah wrote:
RDaneel wrote:

If you play "just for fun" don't play competitive. Play leagues.


Ha ha!

You almost make me want to play just to spite you.
Almost. Twisted Evil



Yes, well, you can also play with strength and conviction in leagues...

perhaps I expressed myself wrongly, I had in mind private leagues not competitive leagues like the super league for example (which is really tough)…. I play for instance one private league were we compete a lot
But in another we play mostly for fun .

Now I am afraid I no longer know how to give a definition of “competitive” in Fumbbl

In fact what does it means? 🧐

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koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Oct 04, 2024 - 12:10 Reply with quote Back to top

You won't get back to having 256+ teams in the Fumbbl Cup without a few fun ballers or fluff ballers.

It'll probably be closer to half that.

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RDaneel



Joined: Feb 24, 2023

Post   Posted: Oct 04, 2024 - 14:18 Reply with quote Back to top

Honestly I can't say I have much experience in cups and tournaments, I've participated in a few minors, the only big league I've played is the Superleague once where there are at least 137 teams and I have to say that I've always encountered ‘tough’ coaches who didn't hesitate to exploit the slightest advantage seeking fora grueling victory.

As you say, the greater the number of participants the greater the likelihood of finding those who only play for fluff or fun. For example, I have the impression that in Trophy - which is certainly the tournament that everyone participates in - you can find any type of persons.

So at the end it's not true that if you want to play fun you have to play only leagues... Depend also by leagues and its size....

I've said a load of crap now that I think about it Laughing

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To judge a man, one must at least know the secret of his thoughts, his misfortunes, his emotions, Balzac
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Oct 04, 2024 - 14:52 Reply with quote Back to top

"One must walk through much crap on the road to enlightenment." Very Happy

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RDaneel



Joined: Feb 24, 2023

Post   Posted: Oct 04, 2024 - 17:12 Reply with quote Back to top

Talk about trying to win at all costs.

HERE'S HOW NOT TO DO IT

A prime example of a game where you just have to draw (if you can't score in turn 3) and still earn SPPs by the avalanche of CAS Nuffle decided to give.

What an idiot I am.
Very good of my opponent to perfectly exploit my stupidity....

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To judge a man, one must at least know the secret of his thoughts, his misfortunes, his emotions, Balzac
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Oct 04, 2024 - 18:10 Reply with quote Back to top

The scores are all 0 in that league. What is that all about?

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RDaneel



Joined: Feb 24, 2023

Post   Posted: Oct 04, 2024 - 20:07 Reply with quote Back to top

koadah wrote:
The scores are all 0 in that league. What is that all about?


you have to watch the draft sheet link in the main page of the league
https://fumbbl.com/p/group?op=view&group=15482
don't know why the fumbbl score is not updated

btw i find this league very nice!

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To judge a man, one must at least know the secret of his thoughts, his misfortunes, his emotions, Balzac
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