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Grod



Joined: Sep 30, 2003

Post   Posted: Oct 14, 2023 - 01:48 Reply with quote Back to top

From my usage and observation, Vargheist is massively underrated.

He's tough as nails: regen + AV10+
He's one skill pick away from mighty blow + claw combo
He's got decent agility to be a break tackle candidate or even to pick up the ball if you're desperate
If he fails his negatrait roll, he still gets to move / block / blitz and/or stand up
If he fails his negatrait roll, it's optional whether you even bite a thrall (use him at the end of your turn when you aren't worried about turnovers).

Most Big Guys are either glass cannons or solid wall pieces. This guy is both (without the glass)!

Which Big Guys are actually better?

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Nelphine



Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Post   Posted: Oct 14, 2023 - 01:52 Reply with quote Back to top

trolls are way better. trees are better. krox and beast of nurgle fit a better role in their team.
Drrek



Joined: Jul 23, 2012

Post   Posted: Oct 14, 2023 - 05:01 Reply with quote Back to top

Haven't played Vamps yet, but based just on what I've seen, I like the Vargheist the best. Trees on flings are certainly better, but flings aren't... good so I barely count that. Trolls are more important to goblins certainly, but same issue (that goblins are bad). I've never felt like the Tree makes that much sense on wood elves to be honest. Krox and Beast of Nurgle are certainly good on their teams, but I think the Vargheist is a better piece than them.

As a self-proclaimed Big Guy hater, I like the Vargheist
MerryZ



Joined: Nov 28, 2005

Post   Posted: Oct 14, 2023 - 07:16 Reply with quote Back to top

Torl best, then Torl and finally Torl.

After that, maybe.

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Jan-Erik



Joined: Apr 17, 2011

Post   Posted: Oct 14, 2023 - 08:54 Reply with quote Back to top

I think the Vargheist is a really good piece and offers something crucial to the vampire roster they're otherwise lacking.
C0ddlefish



Joined: Sep 17, 2019

Post   Posted: Oct 14, 2023 - 09:24 Reply with quote Back to top

I can't help but think Frenzy and Bloodlust will just create loads of turnovers because you need to plan to have a Thrall in range in the event of a single AND double blocks.

On that basis I see it as a more passive roadblock type of big guy, or it has to go last on your turn and risk going passive
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Oct 14, 2023 - 11:34 Reply with quote Back to top

Drrek wrote:
I've never felt like the Tree makes that much sense on wood elves to be honest.

He helps to 1ttd and to half-cage. I tied or won many games thanks to the WE Treeman.
Also, he can be set up on LOS to tank hits and on defence is a roadblock.
WE roster would be weaker without the Treeman.
Sp00keh



Joined: Dec 06, 2011

Post   Posted: Oct 14, 2023 - 12:30 Reply with quote Back to top

One thing about Varg:
Mighty Blow is the obvious choice to make him an effective hitter
But, Juggs will make him more reliable, and therefore actually more effective than MB

Juggs > MB is probably faster skillup path than MB > Juggs
Carthage



Joined: Mar 18, 2021

Post   Posted: Oct 14, 2023 - 16:29 Reply with quote Back to top

because he is a loner, he should be moving last anyways whenever possible so failing the bloodlust isn't even that big of a deal imo. I agree that he is probably the best big guy but for value the troll might be a bit better but not by much even in that metric. I like him alot and his niche on the vamp squad is very strong.
remetagross



Joined: Mar 09, 2023

Post   Posted: Oct 16, 2023 - 11:42 Reply with quote Back to top

The fact he can 100% reliably stand up is very good. No other negatrait guarantees that, and having a floored Big Guy is so much useless TV...

I'm just wondering if he does not compete too much with the Blitzers ?
Carthage



Joined: Mar 18, 2021

Post   Posted: Oct 16, 2023 - 17:37 Reply with quote Back to top

I had a minor rant about that on another thread... I think he invalidates the blitzers until higher TV. But even besides the "which is better at blitzing" question, the varg is sturdy enough that you can leave him based up pretty regularly so you won't always need to blitz with it. Even if are worried he might get stuck, hypno gaze will free him up.
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Oct 16, 2023 - 17:52 Reply with quote Back to top

For what is worth, I played some games vs Vampires and the Vargheist was annoying.
I prefer to play vs Vampires without the Vargheist (I faced them with HE, Khemri and Undead, for the record).
I don't know whether he is the best Big Guy in the game, but I don't think he's bad after a couple of skills.
I found myself moving close to the side lines and the Frenzy threat was something to take into account while advancing.
Also, once he gets MB he's a threat for high AV/high ST players.
So, maybe on another team he would not be very good, but, considering the context of a Vampire team, he seems a valid choice to me.
All from my own particular perspective and in my own humble opinion.


Last edited by MattDakka on Oct 16, 2023 - 18:05; edited 2 times in total
Stimme



Joined: Jun 30, 2013

Post   Posted: Oct 16, 2023 - 17:59 Reply with quote Back to top

Played with him at the tournament where I had access to a Secondary skill and could give him Block.
Liked it and would take him again.
Of course he still rolled Double Skull in a crucial moment and cost me a win, but that's the Big Guy for you.
knine



Joined: Apr 12, 2020

Post   Posted: Oct 16, 2023 - 22:23 Reply with quote Back to top

The fact that you don't need to bite, will always complete the blitz anyway, and that he will always move, makes him awesome as a big guy. And, Claws gives you a weapon against heavy armour teams. As many have said - move him last, no biting required unless positioning is really critical.
Torquem4da



Joined: Apr 21, 2022

Post   Posted: Oct 17, 2023 - 12:43 Reply with quote Back to top

As everyone has said: Reliable, tough, frenzy so surf threat and 1TTD assist, claws so gives you an answer to high AV opponents. And because of all the hypno on his team, it is very hard for him to get tagged out and stranded, and it is very hard to screen off a player to stop it getting surfed. Have been extremely impressed in every game I've had him.

But yeah, bloodlust means that you have to use him thoughtfully. Activate last if at all possible.
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