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Sp00keh



Joined: Dec 06, 2011

Post   Posted: Nov 25, 2023 - 13:34 Reply with quote Back to top

He’s being sarcastic 😆
Sp00keh



Joined: Dec 06, 2011

Post   Posted: Nov 25, 2023 - 13:36 Reply with quote Back to top

RDaneel wrote:
That in the second half your opponent had a lot of luck and scored OK I'm in. But if you only stop to think about your opponent's luck and don't have the intellectual honesty to understand your mistakes then you will continue to cry and blame the dice and will never improve.


This should be read by every coach who’s about to post about their dice
MerryZ



Joined: Nov 28, 2005

Post   Posted: Nov 25, 2023 - 13:45 Reply with quote Back to top

Cat jumping on keyboard is legit reason of blame when you lose.

Dont think there is any better ones.

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Kaptain Awasoam, Dicer of All Men and Women and Children and Puppies.
RDaneel



Joined: Feb 24, 2023

Post   Posted: Nov 25, 2023 - 15:17 Reply with quote Back to top

MerryZ wrote:
Cat jumping on keyboard is legit reason of blame when you lose.

Dont think there is any better ones.


mine not only jumps on the keyboard but also bites me. I have suffered a couple of BHs on my right hand so far!
Very Happy

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To judge a man, one must at least know the secret of his thoughts, his misfortunes, his emotions, Balzac
ArrestedDevelopment



Joined: Sep 14, 2015

Post   Posted: Nov 25, 2023 - 15:21 Reply with quote Back to top

Moon-Shark wrote:
Die stats dont tell you every thing
If you had watched it, what was game breaking was the turnovers on fumbling the ball and yes tried a hand off to give ball to a blizz.
by time I managed to pick up ball a few of my team injured and most on the floor so the 1d blocks was all i could do to try clear ball carrier, from then on didn't get any better, by turn six i think just gave up trying and yes we made mistakes. Loosing is one thing but when die go good for one and sour for another thats not what i call a good game


This is all true, but you lined up for h2 in pouring rain (worse ball handling) by putting your sure hands thrower on the LOS and burning 2 rerolls h1 on 4+ rolls (first the pickup and then the handover). The thrower then eats the last reroll in the second turn making rushes to the ball and fails the 75% pickup, ending your turn without a blitz! being made.

By the end of turn 2 all your rerolls are gone and you are under extreme pressure without stabilising.

Thereafter you are unlucky with pickup rolls and attempt them early in the turn and everything just collapses. Your opponent has relatively average luck in comparison to your unluckiness (aside from his 6 pickup, but it is kind of a needless 6 by that point), but that's enough.

It's a disaster of a half but there's a theoretical half where the thrower had picked up the ball t1 (built in reroll for the 4+) and no handover was attempted. Mr throw is much maligned and often skipped on the roster, but this is a scenario in which you'd want him around, and when he's there his job is to secure the ball.

Just ignore the dice and focus on playing as good a turn as you can see. There will be games like this.

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Moon-Shark



Joined: Oct 14, 2023

Post   Posted: Nov 25, 2023 - 22:50 Reply with quote Back to top

RDaneel wrote:
Moon-Shark wrote:
How in the hell can the die go from both sides having ok die in one half then the die just go completely fudged in the second for one side and good for the other. We both made mistakes but when this happens nothing else but to give up.
This game can be fun but when the die gets fudged like it did which seems to happen more than not it completely ruins any fun Evil or Very Mad

https://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=match&id=4503079


RDaneel you want to insult people do it to there face like a man not a mouse behind a screen
How long did you sit there watching the game to come up with that essay ?
I stated from the start we made mistakes like i had men in wrong position from the start and believe i did say both had bad luck in first half. Mine was just even worse in the second to opponents
But i guess you just one of these trolls ?


So I watched the game and I think you should post your 1st drive under the Lessons Learned
https://fumbbl.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=32794
Let's develop little bit the 1st half:

0/0: you gain Blitz! so you were lucky: but allow me to say blitz! could be little bit better: players #4 and #7 put them too far forward

0/1 : your opponenbt here gets 2 skulls on two one-dice blocks (but pick the ball a 4+ with sure hands) i think is in the average.

1/1: you make a lot of blocks with the Bubs without a block: you did not get a double both down (so far so good). players #6 and #12 are too far forward while #7 and #14 are completely inactive (why?) so: turn in your favour for the dice, but the placement is not perfect (and this is nothing with dice)

2/2: #10 too far forward you are unbalanced

2/3: your opponent gets a SKULL on 1D6 : turnover: he was unlucky (1)

3/3: you were unlucky with double both down (but you have 3 rr not a problem) and you sack the ballkeeper -> stunned, ball lost falling in 3 of your players... perfect turn for you

3/4: your opponent gets a DOUBLE SKULL: turnover: he was REALLY unlucky (2)

4/4: . You continue to make blocks with BuB that have no blocks but you get never a both down,
you manage to pick-up the ball under rain w/o sure hands (4+) without need to reroll: lucky; after this you make a rush (not really necessary) 1: which oblige you to make a reroll and you remain with 1 reroll only.
then you make 1 block at 1 die with the number #6 and get skull. HEre the big error is to block: your ball keeper is protected and your opponent cannot blitz him (he need 4+ reroll w/o roll): stay! You get skull... and now you are obliged to reroll (your last reroll) , another skull bad luck, But the unnecessary risk here was to make 1d roll when you have 1 reroll only and you opponent without reroll: so in this turn you have lost all your rerolls and you are in the middle of the drive and in the next turn he can blitz your Ball keeper (a lino, can be blitzed 1D with a dwarf and get 50% of chance to be hit, 83% of the case to mark and 17% to KO the opponent(which happened after)

5/5: You opponent blitzed your ballkeeper lino in turn before: you make a rush and you fail before ending all the 2D blocks : ok unlucky but anyway... here you feel the lack of reroll (which you vasted in turn 4)

5/6: your opponent makes A SECOND DOUBLE SKULL: turnover!
(so at the end your opponent rolled 3 skull single dice turnover + 2 double skulls 2 turnovers)--> 3 snakes for your opponent!

6/6: you make block with #14 but actually you should have started the block with #7 who is a blitzer and has the block skill (this IMHO is a risk ). The thrower could assist blitzer 7 to block troll 2D ( i would have tried before make a risk 1D blitz with Lino vs Blocker w/o block)

6/7: your opponent makes a resounding misclick with #11: turnover after 1 movement ( you can consider this luck on you)

7/7 you manage to take the troll slayer KO , you make 1 block with a lineman without block against a dwarf who also has block and you POW!
Than after ALL these lucky dices (consider the start of the turn) you try to pick up the ball at 4+ (rain) with a lino after 2D blitz and w/o reroll: It's bad for you because you can't pick up the ball but ...

7/8 your opponent makes yet another SKULL another half snake: turnover!!


So the summary is that you mentioned: the first half was extremely unlucky for your opponent and yet you failed to score. Therein lies the key to the match
That in the second half your opponent had a lot of luck and scored OK I'm in. But if you only stop to think about your opponent's luck and don't have the intellectual honesty to understand your mistakes then you will continue to cry and blame the dice and will never improve.

And this is coming from a mediocre player (me) who after hundreds of games has a win rate of 51%. But it's not the dice's fault it's my fault

please do not take my criticism as personal attacks. I don't know you I don't know who you are I'm just allowing myself to make a judgement on some plays on a game that I think was very lucky (for you) on the first drive and very lucky (for your opponent) on the second drive and that if played correctly by both sides probably would have ended in a draw.
Happy_Amateur



Joined: Jan 14, 2019

Post   Posted: Nov 26, 2023 - 07:28 Reply with quote Back to top

Hehehehe.... this is gold.
awambawamb



Joined: Feb 17, 2008

Post   Posted: Nov 26, 2023 - 11:24 Reply with quote Back to top

luck is a wheel turning into both directions at the same time.

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"la virtù sta nel cielo e nella terra, ma anche nelle nuvole e nelle stelle"

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Sp00keh



Joined: Dec 06, 2011

Post   Posted: Nov 26, 2023 - 11:30 Reply with quote Back to top

Moon-Shark: loses a game, blames dice

Everyone else:
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Sp00keh



Joined: Dec 06, 2011

Post   Posted: Nov 26, 2023 - 11:41 Reply with quote Back to top

To be more direct, and possibly more helpful:
@Moon-Shark the game is a tough one, it’s unforgiving but it’s not unfair
You lost a game
You feel bad about it
You moaned on the forums and got some helpful responses and some teasing as well maybe
You’re still too upset to see that

Everyone here who has played enough games has been through something similar probably
It’s actually a process of personal growth, if you can get past this you will have matured a bit.

If you play bad, then get upset, then play worse, you can’t litigate your way out of it afterwards. You can’t wash it away with words and bluster. The match replay is there forever and an experienced eye can see what’s happened

You first need to accept what happened
Then you need try to 1) not play bad 2) not get upset and play worse
These things are not easy so I’m not saying it flippantly

Like I say, a lot of experienced coaches here have been through the same thing
Overcoming this is something you will have to grow past, yourself
Chrisdekok



Joined: Aug 09, 2021

Post   Posted: Nov 26, 2023 - 11:50 Reply with quote Back to top

The best way to compensate for bad dice is trying to have some unfair advantage, like playing orcs. Sometimes even that doesn't help, talking from experience here.
ben_awesome



Joined: May 11, 2016

Post   Posted: Nov 26, 2023 - 12:43 Reply with quote Back to top

I tilt and lose all the time, whilst cursing the RNG
MerryZ



Joined: Nov 28, 2005

Post   Posted: Nov 26, 2023 - 14:00 Reply with quote Back to top

Im 100% positive that this game is unfair.

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Kaptain Awasoam, Dicer of All Men and Women and Children and Puppies.
RDaneel



Joined: Feb 24, 2023

Post 12 Posted: Nov 26, 2023 - 16:29 Reply with quote Back to top

I totally agree with what Sp00keh said.

The point I wanted to make with my analysis (I admit it is often longer than a Ludwig Boltzmann demonstration) is that bloodbowl is a dice-based game and it is very important to deal with this elephant in the room: the die. So to know how to handle and read the dice.

When die is fortunate like in this game for 1st drive for the orcs, once you sack your opponent and get the ball it is important to capitalize the result and minimize the risks (so minimize the disorder, minimize the speed of the entropy's growth... call it what you will) in sum STAY: just move - which does not require any roll - protect and roll as little dice as you can, especially if your opponent has ended all RR, lost the ball and it is turn 4 (as happened in the first half).

Then of course it is also a question what is the target of playing bloodbowl: if you play for fun and want to roll as many blocking dice per turn as possible, enjoy removal or whatever then it's OK. But don't then complain if the dice go somewhere else at some point.
If, on the other hand, you play to try to improve, to maximize win rate, then it is very useful to watch the replays (especially own replay of games when went wrong).

For a certain time I blamed my mediocre results giving the fault to bad luck. Then I started watching replays of the games I had lost and discovered many mistakes that perhaps if I had not made I might have been able to draw. So I decided to stop complaining dice (as I write also in my "about") because is useless. Now I'm still a mediocre player but at least I don't get as angry as I used to and just want to learn and improve.

Of course there are games totally biased by bad dicing in one sense; But in average (on several matches) you will benefit also of perfect games because dice is fair, RNG is pseudorandom but in average is not biased. But sorry to repeat this was not the case of this specific match we are telling here, ref. my previous essay - (C) 2023 RDaneel edition Wink )

Finally allow me to apologies if my analysis may have offended you, Moon-Shark ; I did not mean to insult anybody and if you felt insulted by what I wrote I apologies.
And last but not least: no. I am not a Troll. Trolls do not usually learn from their mistakes and do not apologies Wink

Courage! and good luc... ehmmm "good dice reading!"

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To judge a man, one must at least know the secret of his thoughts, his misfortunes, his emotions, Balzac
Chrisdekok



Joined: Aug 09, 2021

Post   Posted: Nov 26, 2023 - 16:54 Reply with quote Back to top

RDaneel gives very good advice and is as far from a troll you can get.
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