Javark
Joined: Apr 19, 2015
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 Posted:
Jan 09, 2024 - 09:17 |
 
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| Candlejack wrote: | | I explained why this distinction is not needed for jump up. You seem to ignore this point and yes, then it becomes unclear. Then you should send that question to the faq address and hope tge put it into the next faq. |
I do not want to ignore your point, which is actually my perspective as well: I was forced to follow an alternative interpretation. I am not stating that the world has to change their perspective. Indeed, I have submitted the request already, but I was hoping to see here a quote from an official source (like Spike Magazine) where the usage of "Block action" was as clear as in other skills. |
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LucaAnt
Joined: Apr 24, 2006
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| Posted:
Jan 09, 2024 - 09:47 |
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I really don't think there's any need for clarification, whatever Candlejack is saying I totally agree with (don't have the patience to read all that stuff though, sorry man).
But let's try to mess things up and go the other way: what might clarify why Jump Up with Blitz should not need any Ag roll to stand up could be the opposite case, which I believe is a Tree blitzing but failing the Take Root roll (unless that rule changed?). In this example you don't get to block even if Mr. T is already basing the opponent player because in order to Block your vile enemy you need to move at least 1 square (note that if you just declared Block you get to hit the dude/lady/thing, you just can't follow up), hence declaring Blitz with a Jump Up player should not require any Ag roll because movement it's part of the Blitz (no matter if the block happens at the start, during or at the end of the player's action, remember to still count the block thingy thingy as part of the movement).
Hope this will help you and mess with your pals minds even more (no need Faq, they are wrong). |
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Javark
Joined: Apr 19, 2015
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| Posted:
Jan 09, 2024 - 10:32 |
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| LucaAnt wrote: | I really don't think there's any need for clarification, whatever Candlejack is saying I totally agree with (don't have the patience to read all that stuff though, sorry man).
But let's try to mess things up and go the other way: what might clarify why Jump Up with Blitz should not need any Ag roll to stand up could be the opposite case, which I believe is a Tree blitzing but failing the Take Root roll (unless that rule changed?). In this example you don't get to block even if Mr. T is already basing the opponent player because in order to Block your vile enemy you need to move at least 1 square (note that if you just declared Block you get to hit the dude/lady/thing, you just can't follow up), hence declaring Blitz with a Jump Up player should not require any Ag roll because movement it's part of the Blitz (no matter if the block happens at the start, during or at the end of the player's action, remember to still count the block thingy thingy as part of the movement).
Hope this will help you and mess with your pals minds even more (no need Faq, they are wrong). |
Thanks for the feedback. |
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MrCushtie
Joined: Aug 10, 2018
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Jan 10, 2024 - 04:30 |
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Have you asked them yet about when the blitzing player is prone?
Jump Up says you can stand up from prone without using any of your MA.
Jump Up also says if you are prone, you can make an AG roll in order to stand up and block.
Blitzes can be done once per turn and are any legal combination of movement and blocking, where the block costs you one point of MA.
So, the only reason you'd need an AG test to stand up to block as part of a blitz would be if you used some of your move allowance, then made yourself go prone while basing your opponent, and then stood up to block them. And since it's impossible for you to make your own player go prone during their activation without either (a) performing a block with Wrestle or (b) causing a turnover, a blitz doesn't contain a block from prone. |
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Javark
Joined: Apr 19, 2015
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| Posted:
Jan 10, 2024 - 20:23 |
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| MrCushtie wrote: | | Have you asked them yet about when the blitzing player is prone? |
The whole point of this thread is about a prone player with Jump Up performing the Blitz action.
I will do a summary here: basically, everyone here (me included) agree that the check is not needed. And all the reasoning is about the Move action included in the Blitz action.
Unfortunately, it is true that whenever the Block action is referred to in a skill, either it's explicitly specified whether the Blitz action is included or excluded (see the Multiple Block skill) or there's no specification at all (like the Block skill). In the second case, the general rule is that the Block action seems to be extended to the Blitz action. But in the case of Jump Up, it's against the general understanding and the online game implementation.
I am waiting for an official update to the FAQ at this point. |
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PurpleChest
Joined: Oct 25, 2003
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It seems unlikely, the sad fact is you face someone with a house rule niche interpretation that the entire rest of blood bowl thinks is wrong.
Good luck persuading them.
If the ample evidence already in the rule book isnt enough, likely no rewording will be. |
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Barbarus hic ego sum, quia non intelligor illis -Ovid
I am a barbarian here because i am not understood by anyone |
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Joost
Joined: Mar 17, 2014
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| Posted:
Jan 11, 2024 - 09:07 |
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A blitz is explicitly a different action than a block action. There are clear rules for either action in the Jump Up rules. Your league mates refuse to achknowledge the distinction. I'm afraid PurpleChest is right.... Hopefully they'll be convinced at some point! |
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Javark
Joined: Apr 19, 2015
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| Posted:
Jan 11, 2024 - 16:18 |
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| Joost wrote: | | A blitz is explicitly a different action than a block action. There are clear rules for either action in the Jump Up rules. Your league mates refuse to achknowledge the distinction. I'm afraid PurpleChest is right.... Hopefully they'll be convinced at some point! |
As stated many times, nothing but an official change to the FAQ will change their mind - I wrote it also in the original post: I need an official clarification, not "logic".
Unfortunately, and I am quoting the Blood Bowl season 2 official manual here:
[...]
Generals Skills
Block
When a Both Down result is applied during a Block action, this player may choose to ignore it and not be Knocked Down, as described on page 57.
Frenzy
Every time a player performs a Block action (on its own or as part of a Blitz action), [...]
[...]
Agility Skills
Jump Up
[...]
If this test is passed, they stand up and may perform the Block action.
[...]
Strength Skills
Brawler
When this player performs a Block action on its own (but not as part of a Blitz action) [...]
------------------
According to the rules,
Block action in Block skill: obviously, extensive meaning here: Block and Blitz;
Block action in Frenzy skill: it explicitly refers to both Block and Blitz, actually - there's even additionally wording to make sure there's no misunderstanding (why?). So should we suppose that having Block action without this long addition refers to Block on its own? That would change the Block skill interpretation, right?
Block action in Jump Up skill: the world reads "Block on its own" but my league gives it the same meaning as Block action in the Block skill. Is that really so wrong?
Block action in Brawler skill: it creates another case, that is, Block action followed by the explicit clarification that it refers to Block action on its own and not as part of the Blitz action.
In the end, I just need to have somewhere the same wording as Brawler. I do hope they will update the FAQ or provide any other kind of official alternative wording of Jump Up.
Furthermore... I guess that it must be explicitly written that any action that includes movement can have the benefit of Jump Up without any checks. Then, they can leave whatever wording to that Block action (or just add redundantly that its not part of a Blitz).
The whole point of Jump Up is to reduce the movement penalty, right? sigh... |
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Sp00keh
Joined: Dec 06, 2011
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| Posted:
Jan 11, 2024 - 16:57 |
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Why is this 4 pages of the same thing?
Going round and round and round and round for the sake of some "my friend doesn't agree" .... ??
It's not important what this person thinks. It's already been clarified, again and again
"nothing but an official change to the FAQ will change their mind" - Super. leave them to it.
The discussion is over, let the thread die |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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| Posted:
Jan 11, 2024 - 17:52 |
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