55 coaches online • Server time: 17:40
* * * Did you know? The oldest player is debog with 649 games played.
Recent Forum Topics  New Gnones vs Old Gn... | FUMBBL HAIKU'S | Custom Icon, Portrai... |
2010-01-30 11:03:52
52 votes, rating 4
52 votes, rating 4
Not enough resistance?
Today for the first time in a while I decided to hit the gamefinder, as the box yielded no draw for 2 rounds. I chose a team that I wanted to build abit and sat on the finder. Initially, only one coach had teams in my range. So I challenged him for an even TS mirror match. I guess he belongs to the group that avoid high challenge ratings, but he declined that offer and also when I offered to play his necros (giving him 5 TS advantage) or his lizzis featuring their star (giving him 20 TS, but getting 2 handicaps). So I looked on the finder. There was a chaos team 3 TS below me, which I dared to challenge. I got another 'no thx'. There were dwarves coached by someone who joined 10 days ago - I didn`t ask. Those were all teams within the range of -5TS to +15 TS. So I surfed the web a bit, when I got an IRC querry, that turned into the following chat:
[09:37] <other coach> my norse v your cd
(I had seen the team and didn`t even had to look at the team to know that it was an uneven match...)
[09:38] <CircularLogic|vet> you really want to play that matchup?
[09:38] <CircularLogic|vet> most likely I will overpower you
[09:38] <CircularLogic|vet> I have a ton of advantages on my side
[09:38] <other coach> i mostly play for fun. 8th worst player on this site :)
[09:39] <other coach> i see your number one on ranking though
[09:39] <CircularLogic|vet> exactly.. which would make things even more uneven
[09:39] <CircularLogic|vet> as I want to build that team, of course I would play you if you insist
[09:40] <other coach> well i've no one else to play and nothing really to lose
At this point I gave in an accepted the match. It kind of went as predicted. I scored - a lot. My dwarves had a good run against AV7. I limited my DP use to 2 ineffective fouls to keep his fouling in check. Unfortunately, it was one of those games, where tge siguard rolls were all 4+, so he got bashed up pretty much. It still was a nice match, we chatted abit, I tried to give him some tips, he had his moment of glory, where he made a nice pass and scored his touchdown. It seemed to me he was enjoying the match.
Still I wonder... should I have declined the offer or at least put up more resistance?
[09:37] <other coach> my norse v your cd
(I had seen the team and didn`t even had to look at the team to know that it was an uneven match...)
[09:38] <CircularLogic|vet> you really want to play that matchup?
[09:38] <CircularLogic|vet> most likely I will overpower you
[09:38] <CircularLogic|vet> I have a ton of advantages on my side
[09:38] <other coach> i mostly play for fun. 8th worst player on this site :)
[09:39] <other coach> i see your number one on ranking though
[09:39] <CircularLogic|vet> exactly.. which would make things even more uneven
[09:39] <CircularLogic|vet> as I want to build that team, of course I would play you if you insist
[09:40] <other coach> well i've no one else to play and nothing really to lose
At this point I gave in an accepted the match. It kind of went as predicted. I scored - a lot. My dwarves had a good run against AV7. I limited my DP use to 2 ineffective fouls to keep his fouling in check. Unfortunately, it was one of those games, where tge siguard rolls were all 4+, so he got bashed up pretty much. It still was a nice match, we chatted abit, I tried to give him some tips, he had his moment of glory, where he made a nice pass and scored his touchdown. It seemed to me he was enjoying the match.
Still I wonder... should I have declined the offer or at least put up more resistance?
Comments
Posted by avien on 2010-01-30 11:15:03
Na, fair game. You warned him of it.
Posted by Woodstock on 2010-01-30 11:15:54
Finding games is hard, especially when your CR hits 170+. If a coach is willing to play you, why should you decline?
Sure, people will say that you are a picker, that you should not play such games. But in the end, we are here to have fun, if he enjoyed the game, and you did, what is wrong with it?
Sure, people will say that you are a picker, that you should not play such games. But in the end, we are here to have fun, if he enjoyed the game, and you did, what is wrong with it?
Posted by Gromrilram on 2010-01-30 11:30:15
the fact that it went how you predicted an that he had fun in the match is secondary, as it doesnt matter at the moment of agreeing. so what counts is:
you thought you would have fun.
he thought he would have fun.
all that is needed to agree on a match.
you thought you would have fun.
he thought he would have fun.
all that is needed to agree on a match.
Posted by blader4411 on 2010-01-30 11:32:49
If he saw the teams and still accepted, there's no fault on either side.
Posted by Shraaaag on 2010-01-30 12:01:42
He had to challenge you, he thought you had weapons of mass destruction hiding in your team.
Other than that, I don't see anything wrong.
Other than that, I don't see anything wrong.
Posted by LordSnotball on 2010-01-30 12:22:26
Just checked our head-to-head record, and realised to my dismay i've never played u Circular. I've been here since Nov 2004, and we have yet to play ball... OMN (Oh My Nuffle!)
put me down on the list of coaches who will accept any matchup, just for the opportunity to play a FUMBBL Legend :) [catch 22, i rarely play [R], but i'll take any matchup in any division]
if a game is fun, both players are winners, regardless of the outcome and final score :) and at least ur opponent can say "hey, i played vs coach no.1 and i even scored!"
put me down on the list of coaches who will accept any matchup, just for the opportunity to play a FUMBBL Legend :) [catch 22, i rarely play [R], but i'll take any matchup in any division]
if a game is fun, both players are winners, regardless of the outcome and final score :) and at least ur opponent can say "hey, i played vs coach no.1 and i even scored!"
Posted by Ancre on 2010-01-30 12:29:03
You didn't do wrong - you warned him, he still wanted to do the match, I don't think there's something else you need. And it seems you both had fun, that's what's important :)
Posted by bobafettsmum on 2010-01-30 12:51:04
He challenged you and you told him the matchup was to your advantage. You did enough. When I play this game I want to win but if I can say I had fun even when I lose I'm happy.
Obviously I'd prefer it if I won & had fun! ;)
As for Coachs with high CR finding it tough to get games, all Ican say is you shouldn't be so darn good!!! Kiddin.
I often feel reluctant to play someone who has a much higher CR but recently I have come to the realization that I'll only improve by playing better players and because of this my CR went above 150 for the first time since joining the site.
Obviously I'd prefer it if I won & had fun! ;)
As for Coachs with high CR finding it tough to get games, all Ican say is you shouldn't be so darn good!!! Kiddin.
I often feel reluctant to play someone who has a much higher CR but recently I have come to the realization that I'll only improve by playing better players and because of this my CR went above 150 for the first time since joining the site.
Posted by SeraphimRed on 2010-01-30 12:58:10
Seems to me you were very honest and gave him every opportunity to decline. Also seems you were fortunate enough to find someone who is here just for fun. \o/
Posted by fly on 2010-01-30 13:15:17
needless to blog about imho. as is my comment!
Posted by Nexus_Six on 2010-01-30 13:26:39
nothing like a self rightious martyr is there.
Posted by Gromrilram on 2010-01-30 14:12:15
hehe
i am on your blacklist?
cool.
i am on your blacklist?
cool.
Posted by koadah on 2010-01-30 14:21:30
Hee hee
Me too :)
Me too :)
Posted by Optihut on 2010-01-30 14:57:51
All you can do is point things out, if people still want to play then that's cool. Same for declining the match - while it would be nice, if people would accept more matches, I can't really blame anyone for declining to play against dwarves.
Posted by maysrill on 2010-01-30 16:16:44
Don't discourage this behavior!
I generally find that the higher a coach's CR, the less likely they are to take a matchup that they see any chance of losing. This means that you'll be down 10 TS and still get "no thx" for an offer (not even the exploitative race matchups).
The longer people can keep the "close enough, let's play" attitude, the better.
I generally find that the higher a coach's CR, the less likely they are to take a matchup that they see any chance of losing. This means that you'll be down 10 TS and still get "no thx" for an offer (not even the exploitative race matchups).
The longer people can keep the "close enough, let's play" attitude, the better.
Posted by Jeffro on 2010-01-30 16:37:19
The question really is, Circ... Why don't you challenge yourself more often by giving less experienced coaches an advantage, whether that be in TS or by taking Zons against Dorfs?... or, heaven forbid, sitting those orcs for a while? ;)
You're good enough... step it up! :)
You're good enough... step it up! :)
Posted by Jeffro on 2010-01-30 16:38:13
Though... fun is fun and should always be the goal.
Posted by Arktoris on 2010-01-30 16:59:13
if the guy is super new, yeah, refuse an uneven matchup. Otherwise, an offer is an offer.
Posted by Cavetroll on 2010-01-30 16:59:50
I think you were fine to play this game. You explained the advantage to him and he still wanted to play. And it sounded like he had fun, which really is the most important thing about Bloodbowl. Having fun.
Posted by CircularLogic on 2010-01-30 17:13:04
As to why I am posting this:
At the end of the game, when the heavy cas had hit his team, I thought that maybe the right and decent thing to be would have been to decline the match. I`m sure with 10-15min wait, he could have found a fairer match. As i cannot recall this being discussed on forums/blogs before, I thought I just toss it out into the community. And of your Kudos! to my fearless challenger. I`m not sure I would have challenged with teams reversed.
@LordSnotball:
I play [B] mostly. Usually bbtime evenings. Join the box and you will play me rather sooner than later.
@maysrill:
That might be the case for some, but from the high CR coaches I know, most of them just want an even match. No advantage, but no major disadvantage either. On the other hand, there are several low CR coaches that feel entitled to a major advantage, when challenging high CR coaches.
@Jeffro:
I challenged everything on the finder up to 20TS above my team - all declined. The next higher team would have been roughly 35TS above me. While I occasionally play such matches (http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=match&op=view&id=2924910), I don`t feel the need to play it all the time. Usually I play elves in the box - that is challenging enough, believe me. Besides this, there are other projects, that challenge me.
At the end of the game, when the heavy cas had hit his team, I thought that maybe the right and decent thing to be would have been to decline the match. I`m sure with 10-15min wait, he could have found a fairer match. As i cannot recall this being discussed on forums/blogs before, I thought I just toss it out into the community. And of your Kudos! to my fearless challenger. I`m not sure I would have challenged with teams reversed.
@LordSnotball:
I play [B] mostly. Usually bbtime evenings. Join the box and you will play me rather sooner than later.
@maysrill:
That might be the case for some, but from the high CR coaches I know, most of them just want an even match. No advantage, but no major disadvantage either. On the other hand, there are several low CR coaches that feel entitled to a major advantage, when challenging high CR coaches.
@Jeffro:
I challenged everything on the finder up to 20TS above my team - all declined. The next higher team would have been roughly 35TS above me. While I occasionally play such matches (http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=match&op=view&id=2924910), I don`t feel the need to play it all the time. Usually I play elves in the box - that is challenging enough, believe me. Besides this, there are other projects, that challenge me.
Posted by WindexChugger on 2010-01-30 18:51:55
I am one of the people (I know there are others) who think that the match fairness should be based off of the teams. Then whoever is the better coach should win. This is another reason why I like TV over TR/TS; while each team may have the same number+types of skills, the skills chosen will decide how good your team is.
Posted by PeteW on 2010-01-30 19:21:37
PICKER!!!!
/me hands circ some cream to go on his cherries.
Now we know how you got to be #1 in CR. (I like how you casually slipped that in there too btw.) ;P
I shall now retire to my armchair, safe in the knowledge that I have never, ever cherrypicked. Or self-promoted. Ever. Not even a little bit. (Maybe.)
/me hands circ some cream to go on his cherries.
Now we know how you got to be #1 in CR. (I like how you casually slipped that in there too btw.) ;P
I shall now retire to my armchair, safe in the knowledge that I have never, ever cherrypicked. Or self-promoted. Ever. Not even a little bit. (Maybe.)
Posted by Jeffro on 2010-01-30 19:44:08
I didn't mean to imply you don't challenge yourself, Circ... I admire you as a coach - and the fact that you razz lawman on occasion automatically puts you on my Christmas card list ;)
I suppose I went on a tangent... in answer to your blog's question. He challenged you - you explained to him more details of the impending match - you both had fun (hopefully he learned a few things); therefore, no need for you to decline and I'm sure you put up enough resistance. I learned a lot from Azure (wherever he is right now...) and loved playing him regardless of the beatings he usually put on my squad. I liked learning... and while I haven't played you, I've specc'd your games and you tend to offer helpful advice from time to time too. Kudos. You don't need to play academy games to teach or to learn.
My statement before was just a good-natured jab at the times I log in and see you playing orcs, where I'm like "C'mon..." And then I don't see any active "broken / joke" races in your repetoire (Zons, Norse, Ogres, Vampires). So... step it up, pal. Keep that CR above 180 with some dummies, hungries and AV7 bashers...
:)
I suppose I went on a tangent... in answer to your blog's question. He challenged you - you explained to him more details of the impending match - you both had fun (hopefully he learned a few things); therefore, no need for you to decline and I'm sure you put up enough resistance. I learned a lot from Azure (wherever he is right now...) and loved playing him regardless of the beatings he usually put on my squad. I liked learning... and while I haven't played you, I've specc'd your games and you tend to offer helpful advice from time to time too. Kudos. You don't need to play academy games to teach or to learn.
My statement before was just a good-natured jab at the times I log in and see you playing orcs, where I'm like "C'mon..." And then I don't see any active "broken / joke" races in your repetoire (Zons, Norse, Ogres, Vampires). So... step it up, pal. Keep that CR above 180 with some dummies, hungries and AV7 bashers...
:)
Posted by Grod on 2010-01-30 20:58:03
Well, I guess when you are the top rated coach on FUMBBL, you will probably tend to play lower rated coaches more often that not...
Posted by Nexus_Six on 2010-01-30 21:01:21
Can someone now ice this kids over inflated ego ?
What a load of self rightious tosh.
Who gives a monkeys mate.....
unless your hiding something ? ;)
What a load of self rightious tosh.
Who gives a monkeys mate.....
unless your hiding something ? ;)
Posted by koadah on 2010-01-31 01:14:19
You didn't clear the pitch you wuss ;)
Posted by Shimin on 2010-01-31 03:23:43
I would have taken the match too, expecting my opponent to be able to actually think (this is ofcourse after telling of the huge disadvantage he played with).
That said, CR is way overrated, and is hardly a measure of how good a coach is at playing bloodbowl. It would take a very complicated formula indeed to make such a measure (taking into account races, previous results, choice of skills and so forth). On top of that, some coaches actually choose deliberatly weaker combinations to enhance the challenge and the fun.
Furthermore, picking is more common than most people admit to.
That said, CR is way overrated, and is hardly a measure of how good a coach is at playing bloodbowl. It would take a very complicated formula indeed to make such a measure (taking into account races, previous results, choice of skills and so forth). On top of that, some coaches actually choose deliberatly weaker combinations to enhance the challenge and the fun.
Furthermore, picking is more common than most people admit to.
Posted by pythrr on 2010-01-31 04:08:42
meh, he wanted it - you played him in good spirit after warning him -everyone had fun - everyone winz.
gratz.
gratz.
Posted by Ravenmore on 2010-01-31 12:32:44
"Not only am I the rop rated coach on fumbbl, but also very Righteous and True, even if ridden by angst over my own moral spine and fear of being called cherrypicker. Oh the fear! I would certainly prefer to accept challenges of stronger coaches, but ALAS! There are none. Woe is me! Was I within my right to accept this biased game?!"
:) Play Vampires, will rid you of all cherrypicking angst.
:) Play Vampires, will rid you of all cherrypicking angst.