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Recent Forum Topics  FUMBBL HAIKU'S | Gnomes are trash | NBFL Season 32: The ... |
2020-08-10 23:52:19
41 votes, rating 5
41 votes, rating 5
I hate the new rules
Call me a luddite. Call me a reactionary. Call me an opinionated halfwit and show off how much smarter and a la mode you are but they are breaking my toys and I refuse to go quietly.
I despise the new rules we're seeing almost without reservation. They're changing my stuff and I hate it. Teams I have known and loved, dynamics I have enjoyed for over 25 years are being irrevocably altered and there will be no going back. Not since 3rd edition have we witnessed such a change.
I feel like a dear and much loved friend is being murdered before my very eyes. Perhaps murdered is too strong a word. Lobotomised then. Strapped to a table and subjected to some hideous experimental and entirely unproven mind altering therapy as in Clockwork Orange. My dearest droog will never be the same again.
I don't want balance. I don't want them to fix stuff. I don't want a silly half baked skill shoe-horned into my game because someone somewhere thinks it'll make it better. I DON'T WANT A GUTTER RUNNER IN MY TEAM. Nobody asked for a dumb black orc team. Tell you what they did ask for: Slann. But we won't get that.
There are doubtless many that think they know the game more intimately than me, God knows there's plenty who play it better. But its my game just as much as theirs and like the song says "it's my party and I'll cry if I want to".
Anyone that tells me to just go and play something else can take a long walk off a short pier. After all, what else is a 40 something lapsed nerd with a mortgage and only his wife's laptop for company going to play?
What are your solutions I hear you ask. Well my friend you've come to the wrong place for something as coherent as that; this is a full scale A1 chimp out with extra thrown dung, there's no place for answers here only helpless tears of rage and an unfathomable sorrow.
All I'll say is I'd like everything to stay just as it is forever and ever thank you very much. Except maybe remove loner from gobbo trolls. And ban elves.
Gosh I feel so much better now. I'm off for a lie down.
I feel compelled to add that nothing I have said should be construed as criticism of our very own priest of Nuffle, Christer (blessed be his name). Anyone suggesting as much should know that a contract has been lodged with the young gentlemen of clan Eshin to guard against this.
I despise the new rules we're seeing almost without reservation. They're changing my stuff and I hate it. Teams I have known and loved, dynamics I have enjoyed for over 25 years are being irrevocably altered and there will be no going back. Not since 3rd edition have we witnessed such a change.
I feel like a dear and much loved friend is being murdered before my very eyes. Perhaps murdered is too strong a word. Lobotomised then. Strapped to a table and subjected to some hideous experimental and entirely unproven mind altering therapy as in Clockwork Orange. My dearest droog will never be the same again.
I don't want balance. I don't want them to fix stuff. I don't want a silly half baked skill shoe-horned into my game because someone somewhere thinks it'll make it better. I DON'T WANT A GUTTER RUNNER IN MY TEAM. Nobody asked for a dumb black orc team. Tell you what they did ask for: Slann. But we won't get that.
There are doubtless many that think they know the game more intimately than me, God knows there's plenty who play it better. But its my game just as much as theirs and like the song says "it's my party and I'll cry if I want to".
Anyone that tells me to just go and play something else can take a long walk off a short pier. After all, what else is a 40 something lapsed nerd with a mortgage and only his wife's laptop for company going to play?
What are your solutions I hear you ask. Well my friend you've come to the wrong place for something as coherent as that; this is a full scale A1 chimp out with extra thrown dung, there's no place for answers here only helpless tears of rage and an unfathomable sorrow.
All I'll say is I'd like everything to stay just as it is forever and ever thank you very much. Except maybe remove loner from gobbo trolls. And ban elves.
Gosh I feel so much better now. I'm off for a lie down.
I feel compelled to add that nothing I have said should be construed as criticism of our very own priest of Nuffle, Christer (blessed be his name). Anyone suggesting as much should know that a contract has been lodged with the young gentlemen of clan Eshin to guard against this.
Comments
Posted by Nachtogen on 2020-08-11 00:06:41
I feel your pain
Posted by razmus on 2020-08-11 00:10:05
I'm not fond of what most of what I've seen so far. I've seen three versions of GURPS, seven official versions of D&D, and something approaching a dozen versions of Traveller. I'd like to think these changes will ultimately be healthier for BB. There's already several distinct types of BB communities... and I believe they're react to the new rules differently. I know some will die out. Some will change and adjust. What I don't know is whether it will draw new coaches to the game.
Anyone know if any of the LRB versions or CRP are eligible to be resurrected under something like an OGL? OSRIC-style Blood Bowl anyone? Pathfinder-ish Blood Bowl?
Anyone know if any of the LRB versions or CRP are eligible to be resurrected under something like an OGL? OSRIC-style Blood Bowl anyone? Pathfinder-ish Blood Bowl?
Posted by Dominik on 2020-08-11 00:15:13
The new rules will force me to retire many players, some are active since 2005!
https://fumbbl.com/p/player?player_id=2143642
Do they expect me to applaud to that?
https://fumbbl.com/p/player?player_id=2143642
Do they expect me to applaud to that?
Posted by koadah on 2020-08-11 00:33:49
They do NOT have to retire...
As long as the move to the League division. :D
As long as the move to the League division. :D
Posted by Jim_Fear on 2020-08-11 01:21:41
Rated "6" for Slann.
But all things must pass...
But all things must pass...
Posted by koadah on 2020-08-11 01:48:53
Do the new rules explicitly state that "commissioner's word is law"?
Posted by mekutata on 2020-08-11 05:20:19
But... but.... Ooligan with Dirty Player.. and improved Sneaky Git. Goblins will rule the blackbox!
Posted by fidius on 2020-08-11 05:55:50
There, there. The team of 40-something lapsed NAF nerds who put the rules together in between rounds of beer pong down pub off-weekends since lifted quarantine know MUCH better than you how the best fun shall be had. Outside TV 1350-1600 the game is not even worth playing anyway, and you're an idiot for growing attached to your carefully modified, painted, based, coated, labelled, battle-worn, hurled, repaired, storied figs as you do. They're just pieces in a strategy game after all. Trust GW on this -- figs are their business, and no one is better at it. Figs are merely game pieces, nothing more. If only we can discard our feelings for the roleplay and focus on the numbers, our inner statisticians will awaken and we will realize just what's been missing in our Blood Bowl all these years.
Posted by Danish_Dan on 2020-08-11 06:01:22
You don't want to try it a bit first before you get so upset?
I mean, in the grand scheme of things very little has changed. Compare it to Warhammer Fantasy going Age of Sigmar, 40k 2nd to 3rd, or even our lovely own Blood Bowl going 2nd to 3rd edition. This change is relatively minor, and I think it's worth seeing how it plays out before getting stressed.
From my perspective seems some things may be better (passing being separate, kick off table), some may be worse (animosity orcs, shadowing), and some are just different. But I don't see anything that will necessarily make me stop loving playing blood bowl.
I mean, in the grand scheme of things very little has changed. Compare it to Warhammer Fantasy going Age of Sigmar, 40k 2nd to 3rd, or even our lovely own Blood Bowl going 2nd to 3rd edition. This change is relatively minor, and I think it's worth seeing how it plays out before getting stressed.
From my perspective seems some things may be better (passing being separate, kick off table), some may be worse (animosity orcs, shadowing), and some are just different. But I don't see anything that will necessarily make me stop loving playing blood bowl.
Posted by Kondor on 2020-08-11 07:12:23
I know this is silly but I truly love old players. I have a one skill rotter with 131 matches. How long will I be able to keep him on the team. I would love to see one skill players exempted for the cumulative 20k cost of buying them back each season.
I really love team building. The high TV teams are fun for me. I don't know if I will play this game as much after the transition.
We will see. Perhaps I will be pleasantly surprised.
I really love team building. The high TV teams are fun for me. I don't know if I will play this game as much after the transition.
We will see. Perhaps I will be pleasantly surprised.
Posted by FinnDiesel on 2020-08-11 07:34:48
Some of the changes are very silly, like some rules which completely disregard some people to appeal for the larger audience.
Posted by Cloggy on 2020-08-11 07:53:02
I fully and completely agree. For me the fun of this game has always been to build teams and players, which means I have no interest whatsoever in doing that, only to have to restart after 15 games.
If things pan out they way they read to me at the moment I'm out.
If things pan out they way they read to me at the moment I'm out.
Posted by hissa-lives on 2020-08-11 08:01:47
Agreed, am at the point of might as well sell all my teams, I don’t like this old world alliance nonsense and refuse to play against them because of it let alone all the changes that “balance” the game. I mean Jervis Johnson said himself it’s not supposed to be balanced and if the creator of the game says that it’s part of the game and should be the way it is
Posted by SideshowBob on 2020-08-11 08:44:36
I'm with Cloggy. For me the most fun part with BB is building teams with a long term goal. The skill rolls are super exiting each time and they sheer joy of rolling the +ST or doubles on a mummy will be hard to replace.
Not a big fan of this minmaxing thing and this change will lead to much more of that. I assume that all races will have the perfect "blueprints" rather sooner than later and that all teams will basically be copies of that. And that takes the fun out for me.
Not a big fan of this minmaxing thing and this change will lead to much more of that. I assume that all races will have the perfect "blueprints" rather sooner than later and that all teams will basically be copies of that. And that takes the fun out for me.
Posted by Verminardo on 2020-08-11 09:14:14
Well put, very well put indeed.
Posted by neubau on 2020-08-11 09:37:57
yea, the teambuilding aspect is also my biggest gripe with the new rules, that otherwise have quite a few positives.
Posted by koadah on 2020-08-11 10:30:14
Clearly, the new rules were not designed for many of the people posting on this blog.
But look on the bright side. You don't have to use seasons. On table-top you don't have to use any of this stuff.
I believe that Seasons won't be used in 'open' league division. I guess that commissioners will need to switch seasons on.
This cutting teams down can be avoided.
Christer may even increase the TV limits. ;)
But look on the bright side. You don't have to use seasons. On table-top you don't have to use any of this stuff.
I believe that Seasons won't be used in 'open' league division. I guess that commissioners will need to switch seasons on.
This cutting teams down can be avoided.
Christer may even increase the TV limits. ;)
Posted by DatMonsta on 2020-08-11 10:51:28
I can second the fact that the I enjoy teambuilding the most.
I love my non-nmin-maxed tv 2000+ teams, with highly skilled players all over the board and crazy statfreaks. This will never be agian, as they aren't redraftable without damaging your team.
All I can hope for is that there will be otions for leaguemanagers to keep the old rules of skillroles, levels, non-capped team values, no seasons and such, so I can enjoy the game I learned to love some 20+ years ago as I do now.
I don't think I will play many regular R/B-games in the future (as I don't know) but if the changes will effect all [L]-teams as well I think I will much less / not at all in future.
In general the changes are good (Kick-off table, improved throwers, more balanced teams in general dvisions and tourneys as you don't have to grind like a madman to get a tourney-ready team) and bad (why can't linemen not even TRY to throw a pass?), but not for league play!
I love my non-nmin-maxed tv 2000+ teams, with highly skilled players all over the board and crazy statfreaks. This will never be agian, as they aren't redraftable without damaging your team.
All I can hope for is that there will be otions for leaguemanagers to keep the old rules of skillroles, levels, non-capped team values, no seasons and such, so I can enjoy the game I learned to love some 20+ years ago as I do now.
I don't think I will play many regular R/B-games in the future (as I don't know) but if the changes will effect all [L]-teams as well I think I will much less / not at all in future.
In general the changes are good (Kick-off table, improved throwers, more balanced teams in general dvisions and tourneys as you don't have to grind like a madman to get a tourney-ready team) and bad (why can't linemen not even TRY to throw a pass?), but not for league play!
Posted by ClayInfinity on 2020-08-11 10:56:49
I am sure the case for bloaty non-seasoned teams will find a home in perpetual league structures. Just like Secret League, there will be a market for "Perpetual League" where all the Ranked and Box teams that dont want to conform can move to. I did it with my first Ranked team (running since 2003) and they now play in Razmus' Isle of Misfit Teams league. That type of play will always have a home. But if you want to play in official fumbbl tourneys, manage your CR or play any form of competitive BB, then it will be what takes place via Christer's implementation of BB2020. The game is still the same, do both!
Posted by koadah on 2020-08-11 11:08:59
I don't see the "big" fumbbl tournaments will have quite the same glamour without the big, famous teams.
Especially if you have to build them up from 1350 every time.
Especially if you have to build them up from 1350 every time.
Posted by neubau on 2020-08-11 12:05:05
@datmonsta: good news for you, L can opt to keep 2016 spp progression and will have very customziable season rules (or no seasons at all). christer told me so much yesterday, as i was worried for cibbl.
Posted by Dominik on 2020-08-11 13:22:52
Yeah, lets retire all and everything:
https://fumbbl.com/p/player?player_id=11123317
The new goal in Blood Bowl: Efficiency!
https://fumbbl.com/p/player?player_id=11123317
The new goal in Blood Bowl: Efficiency!
Posted by MattDakka on 2020-08-11 17:51:08
Efficiency is not a new goal, it has been a goal since CRP.
I'm skeptical about Season redraft set at 1350, because some races could not be playable (assuming their rosters have not been massively changed).
That said, super high TV teams are silly and potentially gamebreaking with this ruleset.
Either the game is fully re-designed to fit high TV gameplay with a good balance amongst all the races (hard, because the higher the TV, the more variables to consider and the statline and d6 systems are too crude to work well with statfreak players) or the game has to keep the TV in check in some way.
I guess a hard TV cap could have been better than redraft and repeat bowl, but this is how new ruleset is going to be.
I'm skeptical about Season redraft set at 1350, because some races could not be playable (assuming their rosters have not been massively changed).
That said, super high TV teams are silly and potentially gamebreaking with this ruleset.
Either the game is fully re-designed to fit high TV gameplay with a good balance amongst all the races (hard, because the higher the TV, the more variables to consider and the statline and d6 systems are too crude to work well with statfreak players) or the game has to keep the TV in check in some way.
I guess a hard TV cap could have been better than redraft and repeat bowl, but this is how new ruleset is going to be.
Posted by Dominik on 2020-08-11 20:20:15
It will be so thrilling to win a semi final and question myself whether the final opponent will be a TV 1800 or 1780 team.
Every team will look the same.
Every team will look the same.
Posted by Malmir on 2020-08-12 08:42:32
I agree Halfabrain
Posted by GAZZATROT on 2020-08-12 12:57:11
I agree as well.
It hurts even more since Clawpomb has only recently been nerfed and FUMBBL is thriving once again.
It hurts even more since Clawpomb has only recently been nerfed and FUMBBL is thriving once again.
Posted by Nachtogen on 2020-08-12 13:45:37
Thing is, at the moment, people can choose at what TV they play. I personally love high TV teams, the majors, and players with lots of skills. A lot of that will change, I don't like it, certainly not if they kill off the Cult.
But I guess I'll see first how it plays out, but I'm with Cloggy and OP, if I don't like it after a couple weeks/months, I'm out, untill the next ruleset sets things straight (maybe). It's what I did after LRB4 changed...
But I guess I'll see first how it plays out, but I'm with Cloggy and OP, if I don't like it after a couple weeks/months, I'm out, untill the next ruleset sets things straight (maybe). It's what I did after LRB4 changed...
Posted by Joost on 2020-08-12 14:11:52
While I share the sentiment I remember also giving up on Warhammer after AOS was introduced. Three years later I try a game with a friend after all and we realized the new rules were much more fun after all. We were idiots for just following the online sentiment at the end of 8th ed and not trying it ourselves! So I have hope this could play out similar and have learned not to assume it will suck too soon.
Posted by Steallan on 2020-08-12 16:07:18
Well said Joost.
The most important values, number of games and TV cap redraft, are not set in stone, nor have even the rulebook ones been play tested by any of us.
Some people who call it a disaster now, will never be able to walk that back, they'd rather quit than admit they over reacted. Chill everyone, try the new system when it comes out, dont ruin the game for yourself.
Attitude matters, trying to enjoy something has an effect, just as trying to hate something does.
The most important values, number of games and TV cap redraft, are not set in stone, nor have even the rulebook ones been play tested by any of us.
Some people who call it a disaster now, will never be able to walk that back, they'd rather quit than admit they over reacted. Chill everyone, try the new system when it comes out, dont ruin the game for yourself.
Attitude matters, trying to enjoy something has an effect, just as trying to hate something does.
Posted by Throweck on 2020-08-12 17:57:51
I'm really surprised at the reaction of some of the names on this thread. Others, not so much.
Having looked through the rules, lightly to be fair, I'm pretty excited about some of the changes.
I do think it sucks that people have forked out cash for things and then this changes so you can't use the minis etc. But Grandma Wendy is a business and that's what business' do. They change. As consumers we go with it or jump ship. Of course we can have an opinion. I have been amazed at the responses on the BB FB group. Grown men acting like children as if a bird has pooped on their ice cream.
I think we have to have a little faith in who was behind the new ruleset. I know a few names thrown around and I am comfortable they know what they are talking about.
We also have to trust that Christer knows what's best for his site. The new rules are not made for FUMBBL. C has to react to the changing tide and has done so pretty successfully so far (insert double juggs moan here).
I get why people seem angry. I do. But, I'd like to see if the 'I will never play this game again!' group are actually true to their word. I think some will, but most will continue to play online here or on BB2.
TT, you can do what you like in leagues. Tournies...well...I am really looking forward to the new challenges that's going to bring.
Change is not always bad. Change is not always good. We just have to ride the waves and see where we land/crash.
Also, I agree with koadah. If the new competative division then there will be L. FUMBBL caters for all pretty much.
When I was a kid, if the nearest playground to me was closed, I'd go find another. I wouldn't stand there screaming 'WHHHHYYYYYYY?!?!'
:)
Having looked through the rules, lightly to be fair, I'm pretty excited about some of the changes.
I do think it sucks that people have forked out cash for things and then this changes so you can't use the minis etc. But Grandma Wendy is a business and that's what business' do. They change. As consumers we go with it or jump ship. Of course we can have an opinion. I have been amazed at the responses on the BB FB group. Grown men acting like children as if a bird has pooped on their ice cream.
I think we have to have a little faith in who was behind the new ruleset. I know a few names thrown around and I am comfortable they know what they are talking about.
We also have to trust that Christer knows what's best for his site. The new rules are not made for FUMBBL. C has to react to the changing tide and has done so pretty successfully so far (insert double juggs moan here).
I get why people seem angry. I do. But, I'd like to see if the 'I will never play this game again!' group are actually true to their word. I think some will, but most will continue to play online here or on BB2.
TT, you can do what you like in leagues. Tournies...well...I am really looking forward to the new challenges that's going to bring.
Change is not always bad. Change is not always good. We just have to ride the waves and see where we land/crash.
Also, I agree with koadah. If the new competative division then there will be L. FUMBBL caters for all pretty much.
When I was a kid, if the nearest playground to me was closed, I'd go find another. I wouldn't stand there screaming 'WHHHHYYYYYYY?!?!'
:)
Posted by Dalfort on 2020-08-12 23:42:02
Gosh it is so hot at the moment...
New rules; things change.
New rules; things change.
Posted by fidius on 2020-08-13 01:10:59
Christer does indeed have more than his share of good sense. For example he had the good sense not to introduce Seasons 4 years ago. Now it's the #1 most contentious change being contemplated. I'm curious to see what will happen.
Posted by PurpleChest on 2020-08-13 11:23:54
I hear you.
But.
It is what it is.
But.
It is what it is.
Posted by Gritter on 2020-08-14 20:24:32
Personally, I think it is really only the skill progression and ability to 'choose' to pay for doubles that causes issues for FUMBBL - and I said that as soon as those particular pages leaked.
Most of the new skills/roster changes I am excited about.
It HAS been designed with TT and short form leagues in mind though... and for those formats I suspect it will work rather well!
Perpetual leagues (and FUMBBL is basically one massive perpetual league) will have to house-rule the hell out of it to make it continue to work for people.
I see Christer is on this so have some faith a reasonable middle-ground can be found.
Personally though, I'd keep Ranked skill progression as it is today... and keep most roleplaying/high TV FUMBBL peeps happy. It's always been FUMBBLs niche in my opinion - the whole high TV game.
(but no, I don't know how you would square that with still having Ranked and Box teams play in majors...)
Most of the new skills/roster changes I am excited about.
It HAS been designed with TT and short form leagues in mind though... and for those formats I suspect it will work rather well!
Perpetual leagues (and FUMBBL is basically one massive perpetual league) will have to house-rule the hell out of it to make it continue to work for people.
I see Christer is on this so have some faith a reasonable middle-ground can be found.
Personally though, I'd keep Ranked skill progression as it is today... and keep most roleplaying/high TV FUMBBL peeps happy. It's always been FUMBBLs niche in my opinion - the whole high TV game.
(but no, I don't know how you would square that with still having Ranked and Box teams play in majors...)