Posted by Focus on 2009-01-07 17:53:56

I agree with the EU comment, and I realise that from down here in Australia I'm not 100% informed of everything going on over there, but I can never really see the EU shaping up into much of a force. Europe just seems too fractured and varied to ever unite under 1 banner. Century after century Europeans have been killing each other with reckless abandon, add to that great divides of cultures, theologies and standards of living and it just seems a wonderful dream but a hopeless reality.

Posted by JanMattys on 2009-01-07 18:01:08

Europe is moving in the direction of a unified economic force, but it will take decades (assuming the world won't be re-shaped already by that time) before Europe develops a unified military force.

Just won't happen.

Posted by Aargh on 2009-01-07 18:59:27

As JanMattys said, the European Union is more an economic thing than anything else. Unlike America, which is formed of many nations that have some autonomy but are all part of the same nation, the EU is a group of independant nations that cooperate on some levels, mostly for economic reasons. It's extremely unlikely that a joint European army will be formed any time in the forseeable future.

Posted by SillySod on 2009-01-07 19:13:20

Ooo arrr, oooh arr. Gerrof me land!

Posted by Tesifonte on 2009-01-07 19:15:13

You jew hater - arab hugger.

Posted by Peter_Thorpe on 2009-01-07 19:20:49

you wait for the lisbon treaty, we'll be more "unified" than you can imagine

Posted by Gromrilram on 2009-01-07 19:29:48

i dislike the term EU in there.
what you ask for is a counterpoint to the US, and that wont be the EU. it, perhaps, will be within europe, but not (immediatelly) the existing structures.
the reason (and damn you bitch, you know it better than you pretend) aint the farm tariffs *cough*usrocketshield*cough*

the mitiltary union will come, but from elsewhere. france and germany have allready started to mingle their forces eg

Posted by treborius on 2009-01-07 19:38:01

While I share your wish for a more coherent and acting EU, especially in military / humanitary missions, but I also share the previous poster's scepticism about how far away we actually are from that goal.

Also, you refer to Kosovo and Bosnia - I'm not sure, whether you name those two countries in order to call for the EU to finally "get their shit together" or whether you think it's a good thing to be remembered of those 2 places?

Just to make sure: Kosovo's liberation and (recent) independence (on paper - it's still run by the UN) is a result of the 1999 bombing by the NATO (mainly through US-bomber-planes).

And Bosnia is *the* example for the EU failing so badly in doing anything in terms of military-action, that numerous homicides and genocide could not be stopped by numerous european blue-helmet-troops, that were present but were only allowed to make use of their weapons for self-defense.

The whole desaster culminated in the shooting of the bosnian Prime-Minister in 1993 who was being transported in a French-UN-Convoi for protection while the french soldiers did nothing to prevent it and in the well-known massacre of Srebrenica in 1995, when Dutch military did nothing to prevent that - as a result from this a whole government, namely the whole cabinet around Wim Kok (Prime Minister of Netherlands '94-'02) resigned in 2002 (they didn't resign until the whole dimension of the scandal and dutch responsibility was revealed by the "Dutch Institute of War Documentations").

Just to make myself clear: I'm not blaming the dutch nor the french in particular - I'm just saying, that imo the EU-nations have proven in the past to be insufficiently prepared to deal with military problems and powers of today's world.

I hope that changes, but the examples above are just the iceberg of a long story of military failures.

Posted by treborius on 2009-01-07 19:41:34

btw: what's wrong today - are your proxies down or is it politics-day? ;-)

Posted by Kalamona on 2009-01-07 21:42:30

as long as EU not unified militarily they might not invade other counties for oil, so good for us. why does it make feel people better to bomb countiries together?

Posted by McVily on 2009-01-07 22:46:17

Humanity haven't change for beginnings of its existance. It's all about power and control. And it always be. In past we were beating eachothers with clubs, now we do it with stocks, and monopoly...

Let's face it.. Humans as specie just aren't evolved enough to share, and not to take more than they need.

Posted by EvolveToAnarchism on 2009-01-08 02:17:01

If we don't evolve soon, I fear that we won't be around on this planet much longer. At least not in anything remotely resembling our present numbers.

Posted by Ehlers on 2009-01-08 06:36:15

As long as each EU country wants control over the own military forces, then you wont see a united EU.
As long as each EU country wants to shape their own politics, then you wont have a united EU. Poliecies formed in the EU parlement are delayed heavily in a country if the country does not like it through lobby, layer work etc etc etc.
And some EU countries media does almost not cover anything that happens in the EU parlement, as it is uninteressting news. Only if it directly chance something fundamentaly in the country law or what ever, will the news cover it.
The EU is more of a economic zone where countries work together to remove barries of movement of labour and of goods. To enforce labour rules, goods rules in order for the EU to generate more wealth and stabability.

Lets take a very quick none deep example of invading Irak. Here the EU countries where split of going in or not.

I agree on your point of a strong acting EU force, but would it happen? I dont really think so.

Posted by Jemy on 2009-01-09 02:38:51

This is the one and only time I will discuss politics on this site, because discussing politics is the best way to make enemies of friends and I have no desire to have any enemies here. Only friends and plenty of them please.

Why is it that it is EU who should get its *act* together? I thought there was already an organization for exactly this type of situation. That organization is named United Nations and has 192 member states http://www.un.org/. EU has 27 http://europa.eu/index_en.htm . All of those are members of UN http://www.un.org/. Why is it not the UN that should get its act toghter?

Well, it is actually exactly that organization that should get right on a conflict like this, however. They can not and will not ever get seriously involved in the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. Why is this?

It is not only due to the fact US will and has blocked any votes that are not in Iraels best interest.

Add to this the fact that UN was effectivly made obsolete when it was bypassed when George W Bush declared war on Iraq without a resolution inplace for that action (does not the constitution state that only the congress can declare war and not a president?).

And ofcourse that pesky little detail that Israel has nuclear weapons. This has never been officially confirmed by the Israeli state. However in the unlikley moment Isreal feels seriously threatened the world be made aware sadly. Besides it is one of the lest best kept secrets in the world.

Ah well, thats my two cents, they ain´t shiny but they are my own, my very own, my precious...

No more political rant from me ever again. I promise. Please notice that I have not taken sides with anything, I have just reported the facts as I know and see them. I have no illusions that anyone cares about what I have written or thinks. Nor am I a extemisthugger or a sionisthugger. I am simply, Jemy. And I am quite happy as I am.

And remember readers, in the words of mr Bacharach; "What the world needs now is love, sweet love"

/Jemy

Posted by Pirog on 2009-01-09 19:37:40

Yeah, Americans love to bash EU for being slow to respond, which in many cases has merit. But in this situation the European countries have voted through UN a resolution demanding a cease fire, and USA refused to take part in that election. So you Americans can't blame us this time. USA has Israel in a leash and if your government would have wanted this war stopped they could have done it in a matter of hours. And as long as USA gets the backing of USA the European nations doesn't have enough political power to influence Israel without causing massive political long term damage.

Posted by Catalyst32 on 2009-03-03 02:10:52

Why should the EU get it's act together and Not the UN?
Because the UN cannot and the EU can.

The EU is made up of largely responsible nations. Nations that in large part pose no aggressive threat to their neighbors. Countries advanced enough to provide basic safety and human rights to their citizens.

The UN accepts terrorist nations like Iran, as members that wish to destroy Israel. The best hope for modernity in their region. A Democracy of it's people not a terrorist organization.

American's criticize because when the world NEEDS action only the US answers the call. And thank you to Australia who always supports us and the UK that usually does... and ok Canada too (eh?).

America does not need a counter balance... it needs RELIABLE ALLIES not road blocks. The rest of you need to get on board before your country becomes the next Caliphate.

What action have we ever taken that has led you to doubt our motivations? This propogandized 'Blood For Oil Business'... we gave our Blood (again I might add)... but where is our Oil. We have gained NONE... because we were not out for Oil.
We have liberated 2 countries from violent Fascist/Terrorist regimes that threaten world safety. Afghanistan is obvious as to why.

But in Iraq Saddam Hussein was personally PAYING $50,000 cash to the Families of Suicide Bombers in Israel. He was advertising that fact as 'CHARITY'. After his downfall th suicide bombings dropped from I believe it was 76 in one year to only 2 the following year. How do you get PEACE with that monster in power? You don't. And that isn't even 10% of the reasons why Saddam had to fall.

Say what you want to critcize America. But when the S#!T hits the fan if someone steps forward willing to spill it's own blood for the good of the world it is America... at least under Republican leadership.

Don't think Obama will do ANYTHING to help you when you NEED boots on the ground. He is the next CARTER who stood idle while radical Islamist's and Fascist's ran rampant across the Middle East transforming that region into a cruel haven for sociopathic behavior. And now that he leads they will again seize the oppurtunity to be malevolent while the Giant sleeps.

Posted by Arktoris on 2009-03-03 02:32:14

Europe will get a better military, when it's culture breeds better men. Liberals make lousy soldiers.

it will happen one day though. Otherwise, Russia will do as it pleases.