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2016-02-22 11:44:26
15 votes, rating 4.1
15 votes, rating 4.1
Major Blues
My first Major finals comes to an end and I'm suffering regrets. Let's blog! Hopefully so I can purge my mind of these things...
I don't think I fouled enough. I even made sure I had a good bench for a combination of attrition and the inevitable marching orders for my dp. He made just 1 foul, and wasn't sent off. Anisdrin did a great job of limiting fouling opportunities.
A lucky touchdown in the first half followed by a relatively quick lizard score left me 5 turns in which to try to win it. I did a poor job with the opening blitz. I wasn't conservative enough, leaving my blitzer is a sure-fire will-be-surfed position, meaning a dodge was necessary, failed and knocked out. That left a catcher in a surfable position and that was me 2 players down in a turn and entirely self inflicted. Bleh.
Then in overtime, after Anisdrin won the toss, I got a blitz. This time I went too conservative. Instead of going after the saurus which would have created a sufficient gap, I hit the wide skink. Both created routes to the ball for the catcher, but the former would have made marking all sauri possible as well as enabled better support for the catcher.
Lessons learned.
There was a side issue too, one that I learned from. Anisdrin was vocal enough about not getting game winning dice (or me getting game losing dice) that the specs, I'm told, came up with a new /command for it. In fairness to Anisdrin, English is not his first language (although his English is really very good) and some of his meaning may have been lost in translation.
I fell into the trap of trying to debate with him on such matters. In more than one turn, as the clock wound down, I found myself thinking about the conversation instead of the game. I have had Major games before where coaches have really poured the whine (and I'm sure the same can be said of me) but it didn't really affect my turns like that. In a tight, tactical affair where the opposing player is very good at the game, those minutes can't be spent engaging in pointless meta. In future I will consider using a post-it to cover the chatbox because it really distracted me to the point that I'm fairly certain it affected my decision making. Not that it would have changed the outcome, Anisdrin really is a good player, but I'd have preferred to lose without all that stuff.
That's it. That's my major whine. Hope everybody is having a good day! Now mine can start too. :)
I don't think I fouled enough. I even made sure I had a good bench for a combination of attrition and the inevitable marching orders for my dp. He made just 1 foul, and wasn't sent off. Anisdrin did a great job of limiting fouling opportunities.
A lucky touchdown in the first half followed by a relatively quick lizard score left me 5 turns in which to try to win it. I did a poor job with the opening blitz. I wasn't conservative enough, leaving my blitzer is a sure-fire will-be-surfed position, meaning a dodge was necessary, failed and knocked out. That left a catcher in a surfable position and that was me 2 players down in a turn and entirely self inflicted. Bleh.
Then in overtime, after Anisdrin won the toss, I got a blitz. This time I went too conservative. Instead of going after the saurus which would have created a sufficient gap, I hit the wide skink. Both created routes to the ball for the catcher, but the former would have made marking all sauri possible as well as enabled better support for the catcher.
Lessons learned.
There was a side issue too, one that I learned from. Anisdrin was vocal enough about not getting game winning dice (or me getting game losing dice) that the specs, I'm told, came up with a new /command for it. In fairness to Anisdrin, English is not his first language (although his English is really very good) and some of his meaning may have been lost in translation.
I fell into the trap of trying to debate with him on such matters. In more than one turn, as the clock wound down, I found myself thinking about the conversation instead of the game. I have had Major games before where coaches have really poured the whine (and I'm sure the same can be said of me) but it didn't really affect my turns like that. In a tight, tactical affair where the opposing player is very good at the game, those minutes can't be spent engaging in pointless meta. In future I will consider using a post-it to cover the chatbox because it really distracted me to the point that I'm fairly certain it affected my decision making. Not that it would have changed the outcome, Anisdrin really is a good player, but I'd have preferred to lose without all that stuff.
That's it. That's my major whine. Hope everybody is having a good day! Now mine can start too. :)
Comments
Posted by harvestmouse on 2016-02-22 11:58:08
https://fumbbl.com/p/blog&c=anisdrin&id=16804
Posted by Verminardo on 2016-02-22 13:50:38
I would suggest to take a step back and look at what you've achieved. You've made a deep run with Humans in the WO and you've beaten some quite distinguished opponents along the way. If this gives you regrets because it didn't go all the way, then practice your Zen more you must.
Posted by Chainsaw on 2016-02-22 14:09:41
I don't have regrets for not going all the way. You can only go as far as Nuffle allows - he was very kind to me in this tournament, including this game where I am lamenting my own poor decisions made, which this blog helped me to stop thinking about.
@harvestmouse: interesting XD
@harvestmouse: interesting XD
Posted by Verminardo on 2016-02-22 14:34:35
Accepting your own poor decisions as part of who your are = Zen. ;-)
Posted by Coooky on 2016-02-22 14:44:35
no need to mess around with post its.
in the client menu go to help/keybindings or help/chat commands, it will open a small window in the client which you can use to cover the chatbox.
in the client menu go to help/keybindings or help/chat commands, it will open a small window in the client which you can use to cover the chatbox.
Posted by Timetis on 2016-02-22 15:35:00
They did rack up 5 straight wins, which is great!
Posted by Chainsaw on 2016-02-22 16:42:28
Great tip Coooky. Will do that!
Cheers Timetis.
@Verminado: I'd like to improve if possible. :)
Cheers Timetis.
@Verminado: I'd like to improve if possible. :)
Posted by pythrr on 2016-02-22 17:08:15
re the wall of whine text. when i'm trying to concentrate, I don't really read what they write, but just reply "aha" after each time they write. annoys the crap out of them :)
Posted by thoralf on 2016-02-22 17:08:49
In your match comment, Chainsaw, you say: "Aside from a failed go for it (which set up our touchdown), he didn't roll any key fails - pick ups, dodges, bone heads etc - to prematurely end any of his turns"
In his 3rd turn of the 1st half, Asteroid Field double skulled after White Dwar[f] had to re-roll a failed gfi to mark your ball carrier. It did not impact much on the game, since your carrier came back down low.
As far as crucial rolls are concerned, there was your 4th turn 1D Frenzy by Monk to keep the center under control that you succeeded, followed by the -1 Dodge with your 4AG guy (Stanley) on a skink to create a scoring threat after a +2 pass and +2 catch. Anisdrin, on his 6th turn, had to take a RR to take Stanley down, something he (I presume he's a he) could not have done had Asteroid Field failed his Dodge or his gfi. Supernova then secured the ball with two gfis. Then Asteroid failed his tentative to get to the ball after his 4th dodge.
Your 7th turn was key, in my opinion for both your and Anisdrin's impression over luck: the +3 pick up and the +2 dodge, followed by the failed Bonehead and the failed dodge, two fails you identified in your report. On his 7th turn, Anisdrin knocks out Stanley, Tom, and Huckleberry, then Solar Flair picks up the ball only to fail a gfi that may not have been that crucial to make, while his Re-Roll was wasted on a BOTH DOWN/BOTH DOWN result by Space Shuttle, a rookie lizard.
Your 8th turn turned a game Anisdrin (one day I'll learn to spell it properly) thought of winning into something he could lose: the +2 dodge, gfi, and pick up, followed by a +3 throw over the LOS to your pomber, who had to catch it on a 4+, then dodge to hand it over to Gary... What a play!
Add to this the tournament situation, past experience with the guy, and I'm not sure why you got out of your game by it. Except perhaps for the fact that you do like when your opponents show sportsmanship, Chainsaw. Your last posts and reports attest to high expectations on that regard.
In his 3rd turn of the 1st half, Asteroid Field double skulled after White Dwar[f] had to re-roll a failed gfi to mark your ball carrier. It did not impact much on the game, since your carrier came back down low.
As far as crucial rolls are concerned, there was your 4th turn 1D Frenzy by Monk to keep the center under control that you succeeded, followed by the -1 Dodge with your 4AG guy (Stanley) on a skink to create a scoring threat after a +2 pass and +2 catch. Anisdrin, on his 6th turn, had to take a RR to take Stanley down, something he (I presume he's a he) could not have done had Asteroid Field failed his Dodge or his gfi. Supernova then secured the ball with two gfis. Then Asteroid failed his tentative to get to the ball after his 4th dodge.
Your 7th turn was key, in my opinion for both your and Anisdrin's impression over luck: the +3 pick up and the +2 dodge, followed by the failed Bonehead and the failed dodge, two fails you identified in your report. On his 7th turn, Anisdrin knocks out Stanley, Tom, and Huckleberry, then Solar Flair picks up the ball only to fail a gfi that may not have been that crucial to make, while his Re-Roll was wasted on a BOTH DOWN/BOTH DOWN result by Space Shuttle, a rookie lizard.
Your 8th turn turned a game Anisdrin (one day I'll learn to spell it properly) thought of winning into something he could lose: the +2 dodge, gfi, and pick up, followed by a +3 throw over the LOS to your pomber, who had to catch it on a 4+, then dodge to hand it over to Gary... What a play!
Add to this the tournament situation, past experience with the guy, and I'm not sure why you got out of your game by it. Except perhaps for the fact that you do like when your opponents show sportsmanship, Chainsaw. Your last posts and reports attest to high expectations on that regard.
Posted by mdd31 on 2016-02-22 17:18:33
@Coooky great tip!! The client really needs to have an option to disable the chat box. I have tried to chat and sometimes still will with certain people but in general it usually is just people berating or insulting me because I have Cpomb players or I am not as great of a player as they are and that is somehow a moral failing on my part. I had been using the sticky note but Coooky's idea will be much easier!!
Posted by Chainsaw on 2016-02-22 18:18:11
Thanks for the breakdown thoralf.
My TD play was a 33.711% play (excluding int chance, tho that's with safe throw) so not as unlikely ("5%") as Anisdrin made out. Still, a fun one to make.
I think you're overanalysing the rest. A 1D was successful? So what? He made many break tackle dodges with only 1 that I recall needing a reroll. The dice were middling for the most part. One turn he got a few kayos, one turn I made a 3+ or a 1D. I mean, where do we draw the battlelines in terms of "luck"? (The very reason the luck counter was not replicated!)
My point was, he isn't entitled to win. His luck was not horrendous. Sure, he had a couple of turnovers but they were inconsequential aside from that failed go for it.
The variance in the dice certainly did not merit his lengthy, ongoing complaints. When I get unsolicited PMs from people on the matter... I can't have been imagining it.
It's a dice game. Sometimes you get the dice you need. Sometimes you don't. Do you suffer successive turnovers on bad dice? Bad luck. Do you lose a lot of players to heavy dice? Bad luck. Did either happen to him? No, so why was he complaining? Because victory was not looking inevitable.
Isn't a _good_ game supposed to be competitive though? I was enjoying it. I was a bit bemused that he wasn't, and I got drawn into trying to get him to see the lighter side of it when I should have seen through what I now believe to have been a slightly deliberate ploy to draw me into the emotional side of it - and it worked. That's on me, not on him, so I will learn for the next time I'm in a tight game and getting puzzled by ongoing whine.
My TD play was a 33.711% play (excluding int chance, tho that's with safe throw) so not as unlikely ("5%") as Anisdrin made out. Still, a fun one to make.
I think you're overanalysing the rest. A 1D was successful? So what? He made many break tackle dodges with only 1 that I recall needing a reroll. The dice were middling for the most part. One turn he got a few kayos, one turn I made a 3+ or a 1D. I mean, where do we draw the battlelines in terms of "luck"? (The very reason the luck counter was not replicated!)
My point was, he isn't entitled to win. His luck was not horrendous. Sure, he had a couple of turnovers but they were inconsequential aside from that failed go for it.
The variance in the dice certainly did not merit his lengthy, ongoing complaints. When I get unsolicited PMs from people on the matter... I can't have been imagining it.
It's a dice game. Sometimes you get the dice you need. Sometimes you don't. Do you suffer successive turnovers on bad dice? Bad luck. Do you lose a lot of players to heavy dice? Bad luck. Did either happen to him? No, so why was he complaining? Because victory was not looking inevitable.
Isn't a _good_ game supposed to be competitive though? I was enjoying it. I was a bit bemused that he wasn't, and I got drawn into trying to get him to see the lighter side of it when I should have seen through what I now believe to have been a slightly deliberate ploy to draw me into the emotional side of it - and it worked. That's on me, not on him, so I will learn for the next time I'm in a tight game and getting puzzled by ongoing whine.
Posted by mrt1212 on 2016-02-22 19:32:03
anisdrin:dicewhines::water:wet
Posted by thoralf on 2016-02-22 19:43:14
I agree, Chainsaw - reacting to whining is entirely on you, just as whining can make you in a state of mind that becomes too reckless or too fatalistic. I wholeheartedly am sympathetic to both weaknesses, since I've been in the two seats.
The successful 1D was included simply because I was typing as I was replaying the game, and because (with the gfis and all the other details mentioned) it indicates that the game was the result of two coaches pushing their teams to outperform. Risk-averse players tend to feel unlucky when they push their opponents to throw dice and get lucky.
My opinion on this is that Anisdrin started to whine after he made a mistake. Without that gfi, you can't score, since you only have one player in the backfield and you can't blitz and throw. My hypothesis is that he failed to take the risk of gfi in his intuitive risks-benefits estimate, lured by the looming TD. Therefore he whined about the luck you had in scoring.
As far as I'm concerned, it's as simple as that.
If what your opponent says bugs you, I see no reason to tolerate it and not tell him.
If there's personality issues over all this, they should be settled by PM.
And that's the memo.
The successful 1D was included simply because I was typing as I was replaying the game, and because (with the gfis and all the other details mentioned) it indicates that the game was the result of two coaches pushing their teams to outperform. Risk-averse players tend to feel unlucky when they push their opponents to throw dice and get lucky.
My opinion on this is that Anisdrin started to whine after he made a mistake. Without that gfi, you can't score, since you only have one player in the backfield and you can't blitz and throw. My hypothesis is that he failed to take the risk of gfi in his intuitive risks-benefits estimate, lured by the looming TD. Therefore he whined about the luck you had in scoring.
As far as I'm concerned, it's as simple as that.
If what your opponent says bugs you, I see no reason to tolerate it and not tell him.
If there's personality issues over all this, they should be settled by PM.
And that's the memo.
Posted by anisdrin on 2016-02-22 19:57:34
As harvestmouse reminded:
https://fumbbl.com/p/blog&c=anisdrin&id=16804
It's not so easy...
Also when you have a established reputation is very difficult because any comment you make is misunderstood and overreacted.
I like to play Chainsaw, he doesn't play the typical bugged teams, the game was fun, that's all!
https://fumbbl.com/p/blog&c=anisdrin&id=16804
It's not so easy...
Also when you have a established reputation is very difficult because any comment you make is misunderstood and overreacted.
I like to play Chainsaw, he doesn't play the typical bugged teams, the game was fun, that's all!
Posted by Jeffro on 2016-02-22 23:37:23
Is this another Chainsaw whining about whining blog?... when does the abyss hit bottom?
Posted by xnoelx on 2016-02-23 01:20:52
..with you whining about the blog?
Posted by thoralf on 2016-02-23 02:52:30
"when does the abyss hit bottom?"
[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-well-founded_set_theory]Never[/url]
[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-well-founded_set_theory]Never[/url]
Posted by JigerJones on 2016-02-23 03:13:38
I went through a similar thing after my lone finals trip. Its so easy to go through a match recap and find all the things you could have done differently. Myself, years after the fact i still find myself remembering the crucial turn where I basically blew the game. Above is great advice, feel good about what you acheived this tourney, learn from your mistakes and try to make another deep run next time. Hopefully next time Nuffle picks you to win the whole thing!
Posted by paradocks on 2016-02-23 03:34:39
You just have to learn to "switch off" when facing an unsporting opponent. Turn off the social side of your brain and play robotically as if it's a one player game.
Posted by Chainsaw on 2016-02-23 03:48:03
> My opinion on this is that Anisdrin started to whine after he made a mistake. Without that gfi...
I assumed you specced the match. Your opinion is unfortunately wrong. He was complaining considerably well before that. At that point (well, the ball steal and the turn up until he failed the go for it) I was reminding him that all his complaining was starting to look a bit silly. :)
Anyway :) the abyss hits the bottom here @Jeffro. It is, after all, very far down on this web page!
I assumed you specced the match. Your opinion is unfortunately wrong. He was complaining considerably well before that. At that point (well, the ball steal and the turn up until he failed the go for it) I was reminding him that all his complaining was starting to look a bit silly. :)
Anyway :) the abyss hits the bottom here @Jeffro. It is, after all, very far down on this web page!
Posted by Chainsaw on 2016-02-23 03:51:36
> when you have a established reputation
I was completely unaware of any reputation going into this game (other than your reputation as a good player). So all comments were taken at face value. :)
I was completely unaware of any reputation going into this game (other than your reputation as a good player). So all comments were taken at face value. :)
Posted by ArrestedDevelopment on 2016-02-23 11:36:22
@Anisdrin Come on man, this is not your "reputation speaking for you", this is your actions, words, deeds and therefore your character. You whine a lot about dice. You accept this. You also like to recount dice that went against you in previous matches (particularly majors), and make it out as if you are cursed never to succeed.
You do this while using an absolutely overpowering Lizardman team. You do this before the dice that are critical are even rolled. You do this when the first casualty amongst your saurus occurs (especially since you frequently do not Apo them as you save the Apo for players involved in one turning). You do this during your opponent's turn, your own turn and wait for it, you do this before games begin and after they end (your team bio and match reports).
I say all this because one of the first big games I spectated on Fumbbl was the Lustrian final. And no matter who played better or how the dice went, the one thing I shall never forget was your attitude during it. As to the FC final? You say dice, but I would say you might even have lost that game on the inducements screen due to negativity. When you continually bring up dice in such a manner it demeans your opponent's play, it demeans your own play, and ultimately it demeans the entire game.
You're almost suggesting nothing you could have done would change things as the dice allowed you nothing and your opponent everything, you're effectively suggesting you were stopped only by chance, fortune, the world!
And that's what it really comes down to - you're a great coach, but I don't think you're even able to appreciate your own achievements properly because you are far, far too focused on the negatives. Perhaps some aspect of that is a large part of what makes you great, but I would consider, that maybe, part of that negativity is now holding you back. The world isn't out to get you, there is no curse. Your opponent should not need to give you counseling during a game.
ps. "bugged teams"? What're you taking to Crown of Sand then? ;)
You do this while using an absolutely overpowering Lizardman team. You do this before the dice that are critical are even rolled. You do this when the first casualty amongst your saurus occurs (especially since you frequently do not Apo them as you save the Apo for players involved in one turning). You do this during your opponent's turn, your own turn and wait for it, you do this before games begin and after they end (your team bio and match reports).
I say all this because one of the first big games I spectated on Fumbbl was the Lustrian final. And no matter who played better or how the dice went, the one thing I shall never forget was your attitude during it. As to the FC final? You say dice, but I would say you might even have lost that game on the inducements screen due to negativity. When you continually bring up dice in such a manner it demeans your opponent's play, it demeans your own play, and ultimately it demeans the entire game.
You're almost suggesting nothing you could have done would change things as the dice allowed you nothing and your opponent everything, you're effectively suggesting you were stopped only by chance, fortune, the world!
And that's what it really comes down to - you're a great coach, but I don't think you're even able to appreciate your own achievements properly because you are far, far too focused on the negatives. Perhaps some aspect of that is a large part of what makes you great, but I would consider, that maybe, part of that negativity is now holding you back. The world isn't out to get you, there is no curse. Your opponent should not need to give you counseling during a game.
ps. "bugged teams"? What're you taking to Crown of Sand then? ;)
Posted by anisdrin on 2016-02-23 11:47:07
Yes I'm bringing a bugged team to the CoS. But you can review the teams I bring to majors. This is the exception, not the rule.
A Lizardman team overpowering? well...
A Lizardman team overpowering? well...
Posted by ArrestedDevelopment on 2016-02-23 11:54:03
This is about perspective Anisdrin :)
Your Lizards have an absolutely great record, are very nicely skilled (even despite relatively recent losses in the Saurus) and have reached deep into most tournaments they have entered. That is "overpowering". You're too busy thinking about opponents that could possibly destroy the team to see what you have :)
Your Lizards have an absolutely great record, are very nicely skilled (even despite relatively recent losses in the Saurus) and have reached deep into most tournaments they have entered. That is "overpowering". You're too busy thinking about opponents that could possibly destroy the team to see what you have :)
Posted by Verminardo on 2016-02-23 12:24:03
Actually I think it's rather impressive to build a Lizardman team like that and keep it going for as long as it has been going. Two finals and now another semi despite losing two Sauri. Lizardmen are definitely not a tier 1 team for Fumbbl Majors. They would deserve to win it this time imo.
The whining is annoying especially if it comes accross as basically stating "I am the better coach, I am losing only because of dice". That's probably true but it's also rude. There are a number of very good coaches who are prone to this, some of them worse than anisdrin. We, the lesser coaches, are aware that you are better. So if we beat you (or it looks like we might beat you), some luck is bound to be involved, but in most instances also some coaching that is pushing the limits of our ability. So we have every reason and entitlement to be proud of it, and enjoy the hell out of it. Don't try to make us feel bad about it, that's just poor form.
The whining is annoying especially if it comes accross as basically stating "I am the better coach, I am losing only because of dice". That's probably true but it's also rude. There are a number of very good coaches who are prone to this, some of them worse than anisdrin. We, the lesser coaches, are aware that you are better. So if we beat you (or it looks like we might beat you), some luck is bound to be involved, but in most instances also some coaching that is pushing the limits of our ability. So we have every reason and entitlement to be proud of it, and enjoy the hell out of it. Don't try to make us feel bad about it, that's just poor form.
Posted by anisdrin on 2016-02-23 12:38:53
In major tournaments 90% of the coaches that reach the final stage have high playing skills. That's why it's challenging to play them. And BB is no rocketscience after all.
I NEVER wanted to say that "I am the better coach, I am losing only because of dice". I never said that and if that is the impressiuon you have it's just wrong.
I like to play challenging teams with a chance to win but not overpowered. I don't consider of merit to win using the bugged teams.
I don't understad why talking about dice is such a problem online. In tabletop it's not such a problem.
I also say when dice are going my way. Like I did in the last stage of the game vs Chainsaw. But nobody remembers it.
It's really interesting how people like to judge other guys here and extrapolate how they are just because of some text lines in a chat in a non native language.
I NEVER wanted to say that "I am the better coach, I am losing only because of dice". I never said that and if that is the impressiuon you have it's just wrong.
I like to play challenging teams with a chance to win but not overpowered. I don't consider of merit to win using the bugged teams.
I don't understad why talking about dice is such a problem online. In tabletop it's not such a problem.
I also say when dice are going my way. Like I did in the last stage of the game vs Chainsaw. But nobody remembers it.
It's really interesting how people like to judge other guys here and extrapolate how they are just because of some text lines in a chat in a non native language.
Posted by ArrestedDevelopment on 2016-02-23 13:37:29
@Verminardo Yes, it is impressive. It's also a very strong team, hence overpowering. Does that mean Lizards as a whole are? Not at all. There's a few Lizard teams on Fumbbl that are great, and with great coaches. That the two go together are not a coincidence.
Posted by Verminardo on 2016-02-23 14:06:31
@ anisdrin: I have nothing against you, you gave me some valuable advice once and that's much appreciated, and when I beat your Monster Slann you did whine some but not out of the ordinary. I was more referring to other coaches, whom I am not allowed to name and shame here. That said, I think everybody should consider how what they say will be received at the other end. And your English is decent, so whatever may be the problem the language barrier ain't it. ;-)
Posted by santamaria on 2016-02-23 14:20:21
when i do spectate game, i don't like to use chat sounds.
Except when one of the players starts to whine. In that case, i like to highlight every single whine with a /booo, hoping he will understand how annoying is this attitude.
It never works, but at least they tend to be pissed off
Except when one of the players starts to whine. In that case, i like to highlight every single whine with a /booo, hoping he will understand how annoying is this attitude.
It never works, but at least they tend to be pissed off
Posted by ArrestedDevelopment on 2016-02-23 14:20:24
@anisdrin
There's personas. People are inclined to form opinions and we do it upon what we are presented with. People we work beside often have different opinions of us than people we socialise with. The same goes for online personas/characters.
I'm not judging you as a person. I don't know you. But I have seen your online persona, as have many, many others. That's a perspective, and it is, in a lot of cases likely to be the only one we get of you.
Anyway, this is not intended to make you out as some sort of horrible person. Just to give you an idea of how things can also appear. While we have no control over what others may think of our words and deeds, we do have control over which ones they are party to :)
And good luck in the WO game :)
There's personas. People are inclined to form opinions and we do it upon what we are presented with. People we work beside often have different opinions of us than people we socialise with. The same goes for online personas/characters.
I'm not judging you as a person. I don't know you. But I have seen your online persona, as have many, many others. That's a perspective, and it is, in a lot of cases likely to be the only one we get of you.
Anyway, this is not intended to make you out as some sort of horrible person. Just to give you an idea of how things can also appear. While we have no control over what others may think of our words and deeds, we do have control over which ones they are party to :)
And good luck in the WO game :)
Posted by harvestmouse on 2016-02-23 14:33:45
*I thought smack talk was a big part of the tourney scene? Smack talk comes in all different forms but chat that 'could' unsettle your opponent. If it does, I suggest a couple of seasons in SWL.
*I think it's a really nice team. I thought they were both nice teams. A great match up and actually a good match.
*Leopards how hard they try, and how hard they really want to, unfortunately cannot change their spots; only put a bit of make up on to cover them for a few days.
*I think it's a really nice team. I thought they were both nice teams. A great match up and actually a good match.
*Leopards how hard they try, and how hard they really want to, unfortunately cannot change their spots; only put a bit of make up on to cover them for a few days.
Posted by thoralf on 2016-02-23 15:04:49
> I assumed you specced the match. Your opinion is unfortunately wrong. He was complaining considerably well before that.
It's not an "opinion," man. It's an analysis. The analysis stands even if I need to correct the one sentence you decided to pick.
If Anisdrin was "complaining considerably" and you said nothing, all this sorry episode was, and still is, really all on you, man.
Be assertive, and stop all this passive-aggro crap.
It's not an "opinion," man. It's an analysis. The analysis stands even if I need to correct the one sentence you decided to pick.
If Anisdrin was "complaining considerably" and you said nothing, all this sorry episode was, and still is, really all on you, man.
Be assertive, and stop all this passive-aggro crap.
Posted by thoralf on 2016-02-23 15:30:16
> I'm not judging you as a person. I don't know you. But I have seen your online persona, as have many, many others.
Complete your inference, AD - you're judging Anisdrin' online persona.
Complete your inference, AD - you're judging Anisdrin' online persona.
Posted by ArrestedDevelopment on 2016-02-23 15:42:06
I said I wasn't judging him as a person. I'm presenting an opinion based on his online persona. My intention certainly isn't to abuse Anisdrin.
Posted by thoralf on 2016-02-23 19:31:18
Not all ad homs are abusive, but all "persona" talk is indeed personal. There's not much difference between "you're constantly whining" and "you're a whiner."
If someone bugs you in a competitive game with his whining, you simply ask that person to stop whining. Writing a report, then a blog post, and then piling on in a comment thread is beyond silly. A is most probably more handicapped by this trait than any of his opponents anyway, even if Nuffle often enjoys a good whine. It certainly looked that way during the last final that I witnessed.
***
As far as I am concerned, the most interesting aspect is that C estimates his 8th turn TD as a 34% play, while for A it's a 5%. The latter seems to include the failed gfi, while the former excludes it. Reconciling these numbers might be more profitable than another round of shaming.
Even if we accept A's 5% (I get around 7%, but I'd need to recheck), that's a 5% too much, in my opinion. It's riskier than throwing a 2D Block before scoring without a Re-Roll: if someone fears that a SKULL/SKULL is too risky, then that gfi carried (more than) twice that risk. Considering that A's team out-STed C's and that it was in control of the game, I don't think that the reward justified the risk. I'm no decison theorist, so I'd be interested in arguments that would make me change my mind
That said, my own skink might have went for it, since I tend to be overoptimistic.
If someone bugs you in a competitive game with his whining, you simply ask that person to stop whining. Writing a report, then a blog post, and then piling on in a comment thread is beyond silly. A is most probably more handicapped by this trait than any of his opponents anyway, even if Nuffle often enjoys a good whine. It certainly looked that way during the last final that I witnessed.
***
As far as I am concerned, the most interesting aspect is that C estimates his 8th turn TD as a 34% play, while for A it's a 5%. The latter seems to include the failed gfi, while the former excludes it. Reconciling these numbers might be more profitable than another round of shaming.
Even if we accept A's 5% (I get around 7%, but I'd need to recheck), that's a 5% too much, in my opinion. It's riskier than throwing a 2D Block before scoring without a Re-Roll: if someone fears that a SKULL/SKULL is too risky, then that gfi carried (more than) twice that risk. Considering that A's team out-STed C's and that it was in control of the game, I don't think that the reward justified the risk. I'm no decison theorist, so I'd be interested in arguments that would make me change my mind
That said, my own skink might have went for it, since I tend to be overoptimistic.
Posted by anisdrin on 2016-02-23 20:28:29
I think Chainsaw and I have a good fumbbl relationship. We enjoy playing against each other.
At the start of the game I was annoyed because my good defense was not getting fruits and Chainsaw was enjoying more than me.
When I saw I was down 1-0 after 1st half I decided to concentrate, forget 1st half and go for the win scoring fast and being confident on my defense to get me the game.
Tide turned and at the end of the match I was more positive and Chainsaw more negative. Which is natural.
For me there is nothing wrong I this discussion because it's being civil and educated so fine for me.
Next game we played I tried no to talk about dice and be more silent because I understood what Chainsaw exposed.
I'm not perfect at all and I'm conscient of my flaws which probably shine when I'm in the middle of a competition. But the truth is that I don't want to offend on purpose. And if I offended Chainsaw I apologise.
As I said I enjoyed and will continue to enjoy games against Chainsaw.
At the start of the game I was annoyed because my good defense was not getting fruits and Chainsaw was enjoying more than me.
When I saw I was down 1-0 after 1st half I decided to concentrate, forget 1st half and go for the win scoring fast and being confident on my defense to get me the game.
Tide turned and at the end of the match I was more positive and Chainsaw more negative. Which is natural.
For me there is nothing wrong I this discussion because it's being civil and educated so fine for me.
Next game we played I tried no to talk about dice and be more silent because I understood what Chainsaw exposed.
I'm not perfect at all and I'm conscient of my flaws which probably shine when I'm in the middle of a competition. But the truth is that I don't want to offend on purpose. And if I offended Chainsaw I apologise.
As I said I enjoyed and will continue to enjoy games against Chainsaw.
Posted by happygrue on 2016-02-23 22:40:17
I have the honor of playing against BOTH of these fine coaches and knocking EACH out of a major in a game where I thought I played better but they whined at me the whole game as if the game was rigged. :D
I've whined in games too, it sucks - it's something that we should all strive to avoid. We can all do better. Anisdrin can do better, Chainsaw can do better, people commenting above can do better. I can do better.
However, as to Chainsaw's point - I've also lost a semi to a guy who started the whine at the start of the game (he stood not chance, clearly!) and didn't let up. It put me off playing majors for a while! It's absolutely no fun to play at high level and then feel that something that should be fun was ruined by bad attitude. So I think it's especially important for people high up in such tournaments to be good sports as they set an example. So sure, translation and language plays a role, attitude plays a role - my advice to both is to at least role-play it. Your player trips on all the blood. This is easier to hear than "another snake? Figures!" or whatever.
My thoughts on the game: was fun to watch, with tense moments. I thought Anisdrin played it better (aside from the silly GFI) and ended up with the win. But he was hard to root for because the comments DID come across as whine.
TL; DR: just laugh it off when possible and other coaches will have more fun playing you. And when they have more fun you will have more fun too!
Congrats to both for the deep run! Personally I'm pretty annoyed it wasn't me in there playing but so it goes... maybe next time! :D
I've whined in games too, it sucks - it's something that we should all strive to avoid. We can all do better. Anisdrin can do better, Chainsaw can do better, people commenting above can do better. I can do better.
However, as to Chainsaw's point - I've also lost a semi to a guy who started the whine at the start of the game (he stood not chance, clearly!) and didn't let up. It put me off playing majors for a while! It's absolutely no fun to play at high level and then feel that something that should be fun was ruined by bad attitude. So I think it's especially important for people high up in such tournaments to be good sports as they set an example. So sure, translation and language plays a role, attitude plays a role - my advice to both is to at least role-play it. Your player trips on all the blood. This is easier to hear than "another snake? Figures!" or whatever.
My thoughts on the game: was fun to watch, with tense moments. I thought Anisdrin played it better (aside from the silly GFI) and ended up with the win. But he was hard to root for because the comments DID come across as whine.
TL; DR: just laugh it off when possible and other coaches will have more fun playing you. And when they have more fun you will have more fun too!
Congrats to both for the deep run! Personally I'm pretty annoyed it wasn't me in there playing but so it goes... maybe next time! :D
Posted by Chainsaw on 2016-02-23 23:05:34
I wasn't offended Anisdrin. I just got a little too involved in the conversation, which is my fault, not yours.
Also the level of whine wasn't that high. It was just a little unwarranted - the game was finely poised, neither of us enjoying great luck until my TD (a 33% chance to score though - I worked it out on Samba).
I'm more annoyed with myself for the foolish start to my drive in the 2nd half at 1-1 than anything else.
Also the level of whine wasn't that high. It was just a little unwarranted - the game was finely poised, neither of us enjoying great luck until my TD (a 33% chance to score though - I worked it out on Samba).
I'm more annoyed with myself for the foolish start to my drive in the 2nd half at 1-1 than anything else.
Posted by Verminardo on 2016-02-24 09:54:28
Great insight from happygrue, as usual. :)