37 coaches online • Server time: 12:17
* * * Did you know? Up until now, 1479782 players have died on the pitch.
Recent Forum Topics  New Gnones vs Old Gn... | FUMBBL HAIKU'S | Custom Icon, Portrai... |
2010-10-27 11:09:51
38 votes, rating 4.4
38 votes, rating 4.4
Elemental: War Of Magic
This is a bit of a recruitment drive for people that are dis-illusioned with Civ 5.
I'll start off by mentioning that I, personally, am actuay quite enjoying Civ 5, but i do feel that as with many games nowdays it was hurried. There is an alternative, please read on.
Recently an indie(ish) company called Stardock released a game called 'Elemental:War of Magic. It is a fantasy version of a Civ type game (for those old enough to remember it's main inspiration is Masters Of Magic). It has heros, quests dynasties, magic and monsters. It too was panned upon release for being hurried. The creators then apologised for this, offering refunds to whomever wasn't happy. Since then they have released patches almost weekly, hired the guy the made the amazing FFH2 mod for Civ4 and discussed openly on the forums about what changes the customers want. As a final offer of apology they have now announced that anybody who puchased/s it before October 31st will get the first two full expansions free.. That's right full expansions, not just an extra $5 leader.
Now stardock have a great trackl record of supporting their games, remember Galactic Civilizations? Sins of a Solar Empire? Both of these were Stardock games, and both were amazing.
So anyway if you are dis-illusioned with Civ 5, and have £30 to burn i can reccommend you buy Elemental. I warn you it is not a finished game yet. But very soon the 1.1 patch will be released, which will make the game a far more finished product. When this patch is released they will also release a demo, but this will be after the October 31st deadline. However even if you do purchase the game after this you will still get the first expansion free!
Now i don't work for Stardock, and I am not usually so fanboi about companies, but i do feel this level of customer commitment should be rewarded, and i also do feel that the game will go down as the new benchmark for 4x fantasy games, replacing it's inspiration (Masters Of Magic)
So go to this site Elemental read up about it, go on the forums (developers journal topics are probably the most relevant). And if you like what you see give it a try.
I'll start off by mentioning that I, personally, am actuay quite enjoying Civ 5, but i do feel that as with many games nowdays it was hurried. There is an alternative, please read on.
Recently an indie(ish) company called Stardock released a game called 'Elemental:War of Magic. It is a fantasy version of a Civ type game (for those old enough to remember it's main inspiration is Masters Of Magic). It has heros, quests dynasties, magic and monsters. It too was panned upon release for being hurried. The creators then apologised for this, offering refunds to whomever wasn't happy. Since then they have released patches almost weekly, hired the guy the made the amazing FFH2 mod for Civ4 and discussed openly on the forums about what changes the customers want. As a final offer of apology they have now announced that anybody who puchased/s it before October 31st will get the first two full expansions free.. That's right full expansions, not just an extra $5 leader.
Now stardock have a great trackl record of supporting their games, remember Galactic Civilizations? Sins of a Solar Empire? Both of these were Stardock games, and both were amazing.
So anyway if you are dis-illusioned with Civ 5, and have £30 to burn i can reccommend you buy Elemental. I warn you it is not a finished game yet. But very soon the 1.1 patch will be released, which will make the game a far more finished product. When this patch is released they will also release a demo, but this will be after the October 31st deadline. However even if you do purchase the game after this you will still get the first expansion free!
Now i don't work for Stardock, and I am not usually so fanboi about companies, but i do feel this level of customer commitment should be rewarded, and i also do feel that the game will go down as the new benchmark for 4x fantasy games, replacing it's inspiration (Masters Of Magic)
So go to this site Elemental read up about it, go on the forums (developers journal topics are probably the most relevant). And if you like what you see give it a try.
Comments
Posted by Skolopender on 2010-10-27 11:25:29
How close to Master of Magic is this?
Posted by Rijssiej on 2010-10-27 11:49:07
Oh, I loved Master of Magic.
Posted by freak_in_a_frock on 2010-10-27 11:53:33
I will be totally honest. The game is not as complete as MoM yet. However it has a lot of complexity beyond what MoM has, it just needs to be implemented better. There are only human races in the game (with a couple of exceptions but you'll discover that as you play). It is still probably closer to MoM than any other game of recent times. Combat (in single player anyway) is done on a tactical map, spell casting is done both at tactical level and strategic level. The cities actually take up space on the stategic map, rather than being on icon, i.e your city will spread across several tiles as you place your buildings. The basic principle of the game is still very MoM though, as are a few of the victory conditions. Other changes include unique unit design (think SMAC but needs more work to make it more in depth) and the graphics are reminiscent of Borderlands, i.e it is like looking at a water colour comic.
It is hard to say much more intul the extensive 1.1 patch is released, this is a major patch addressing loads of points that the community felt was wrong with the game i.e city spamming, spells being too powerful, one dimensional cities, poor AI (where have we heard that before) etc.
It is hard to say much more intul the extensive 1.1 patch is released, this is a major patch addressing loads of points that the community felt was wrong with the game i.e city spamming, spells being too powerful, one dimensional cities, poor AI (where have we heard that before) etc.
Posted by SillySod on 2010-10-27 12:39:55
Stardock arent really an indie developer.... but hot damn they are making some bold moves.
Its really nice to see such a customer focussed company producing high end games. When my (not ancient) computer gets fixed I think I'll have to pick up a few of their titles. Forward thinking DRM, more than generous appolgies to disatisfied customers... gotta love it :)
Its really nice to see such a customer focussed company producing high end games. When my (not ancient) computer gets fixed I think I'll have to pick up a few of their titles. Forward thinking DRM, more than generous appolgies to disatisfied customers... gotta love it :)
Posted by RandomOracle on 2010-10-27 12:58:59
I'm keeping my eye on the game, but from the reviews I've read, the game is nowhere near the quality of MoM and would need fundamental changes to ever challenge that game. I'm doubtful whether patches are enough to fix the game.
Posted by freak_in_a_frock on 2010-10-27 13:29:46
The reviews are mostly out of date already. The games has already recieved 4 patches to fix stability, and as i said the next patch (1.1) fixes loads of balance issues. If you are unsure then by all means wait until the game is finalised. I thought it would just be best to raise peoples awareness of the game considering the offer. 9link to the full topic below, Frogboy is the lead developer)
http://forums.elementalgame.com/399482
http://forums.elementalgame.com/399482
Posted by Skolopender on 2010-10-27 13:45:39
Really looks very interesting... But mentioning Master of Magic just made me find it as abaondonware and is now playing it via. DosBox!
YAY!
But I'll keep an eye out for it.
Cheers
YAY!
But I'll keep an eye out for it.
Cheers
Posted by Fela on 2010-10-27 14:39:51
Boy, did i love MoM.
About nothing coming close to MoM:
You may want to check out Age of Wonders 2: Shadow Magic (it's a stand alone 'expansion') plus the various Mods for that game. Closest i've seen to MoM so far.
About nothing coming close to MoM:
You may want to check out Age of Wonders 2: Shadow Magic (it's a stand alone 'expansion') plus the various Mods for that game. Closest i've seen to MoM so far.
Posted by Wreckage on 2010-10-27 14:42:41
I loved MoM :.. but my question would be more if it is better then the FFH2 mod in Civ IV in terms of comparability to MoM and in terms of complexity to CiV IV.
Posted by freak_in_a_frock on 2010-10-27 15:53:39
Well the guy that made that mod has just been hired to sort out elemental. So i would say that it has a great chance of being better, since it is a far better engine to start from.
Posted by Sammler_der_Seelen on 2010-10-27 17:23:37
MoM was great ,i think i give that new one a shoot.
Posted by avien on 2010-10-27 17:59:39
Elemental is already a very good game and once they solve the balance issues it will be even better. I approve this blog!
Posted by BooAhl on 2010-10-27 20:18:48
Works on Mac?
Posted by studmandudebro on 2010-10-28 01:07:10
Elemental wasn't just rushed like civ 5 it was released nearly unplayable and has ruined stardocks rep...I don't think I would EVER preorder a stardock product. They got off easy on that dota clone that didnt work because they were just publishers but damn this is the second strike.
Civ IV can be picked up at a bargain price and with the FFH mod series you will get a much deeper and more involved game. Especially if you want a single player experience.
Civ V is great for multiplayer, did away with much of the not needed menial decision stuff, and is being patched faster then elemental, and borrowed some wargame elements missing from many 4x games I always thought would be cool to include.
Shadow Magic does everything elemental wanted to do but 1000x times better and I played that when I was a kid so that must be a very old game.
We got TONS of cool unique races in galciv but in this elemental garbage we get weird human resprites.
Civ IV can be picked up at a bargain price and with the FFH mod series you will get a much deeper and more involved game. Especially if you want a single player experience.
Civ V is great for multiplayer, did away with much of the not needed menial decision stuff, and is being patched faster then elemental, and borrowed some wargame elements missing from many 4x games I always thought would be cool to include.
Shadow Magic does everything elemental wanted to do but 1000x times better and I played that when I was a kid so that must be a very old game.
We got TONS of cool unique races in galciv but in this elemental garbage we get weird human resprites.
Posted by studmandudebro on 2010-10-28 01:14:20
Another issue I have is Derek "Kael" Paxton isn't a programmer, but with the civs game easy modability he was to tweak things just perfectly the way he wanted them.
People say the elemental engine is "better" but now there is an extra layer between the designer Kael and the game itself.
Brad Wardell, is responsible for almost this entire fiasco. He has layed off many of his employees as a result of poor sales of elemental.
You can only ride off an initial success so long, and good intentions don't sell videogames.
People say the elemental engine is "better" but now there is an extra layer between the designer Kael and the game itself.
Brad Wardell, is responsible for almost this entire fiasco. He has layed off many of his employees as a result of poor sales of elemental.
You can only ride off an initial success so long, and good intentions don't sell videogames.
Posted by adambomb on 2010-10-28 01:33:45
Now that's customer service! Nice to hear about. I fondly remember Masters of Magic and loved that game. If this is being compared to MoM then color me interested! I'll likely wait for the patch though.
Fallout: New Vegas is the latest game to come out with a 'hurried' feel. Really wish developers would be less concerned about meeting street dates and more concerned with releasing 'finished' products.
Fallout: New Vegas is the latest game to come out with a 'hurried' feel. Really wish developers would be less concerned about meeting street dates and more concerned with releasing 'finished' products.
Posted by Fela on 2010-10-28 09:21:58
Sadly, it's not the developers' fault (mostly anyway) but the publishers' I guess. Even game developers DO have to eat.
Posted by studmandudebro on 2010-10-28 10:22:31
self published
Posted by freak_in_a_frock on 2010-10-28 11:17:33
Hence the apology and decision to repay those that have faith in the product. It was in fact stated that the game wasn't released early, it was complete 'blindness' on their part. They really did feel the game was complete, and when i transpired that the public didn't they were horrified.
I would very much dispute that Civ 5 is being patched quicker the elemental, 2k have covered some cracks but the game is still a long way off being anything more than a glorified demo. As i said i enjoy it, but the AI is so atricoius that it just spoils any chance you have of getting involved in the game, it is just too easy to hold off the enemy with 3 or 4 well placed units.
I would also dispute your qualms against Kael. He is not being hired to program the game, but instead to help them refine and balance it better. Also Elemental is infinitly easier to mod than Civ ever was. (this point actually has me wondering if you have ever actually played Elemental, since most of the Mod tools are actually in the game, the rest is all XML)
The lay offs were not due to poor sales, in fact they started laying off people before the game was even released, mainly due to the finicial climate.
And continuing in my dispute of your claims, Civ 5 is good for multiplayer? This is one of the main complaints against Civ 5. It has no animations during combat, and loads of the civs aren't balanced correctly, therefore ruining the game when you get stuck with Bismark on a map that has barbarians disabled.
Finally, GalCiv didn't have 'Tons' of cool races at release at all (about 8 i think). And the Lore of Elemental is not of elves and dwarves, but of humans and titans. There are already several mods available to those that want extra races (As i recall we already have undead and elves, both complete with models, buildings and techs.)
I would very much dispute that Civ 5 is being patched quicker the elemental, 2k have covered some cracks but the game is still a long way off being anything more than a glorified demo. As i said i enjoy it, but the AI is so atricoius that it just spoils any chance you have of getting involved in the game, it is just too easy to hold off the enemy with 3 or 4 well placed units.
I would also dispute your qualms against Kael. He is not being hired to program the game, but instead to help them refine and balance it better. Also Elemental is infinitly easier to mod than Civ ever was. (this point actually has me wondering if you have ever actually played Elemental, since most of the Mod tools are actually in the game, the rest is all XML)
The lay offs were not due to poor sales, in fact they started laying off people before the game was even released, mainly due to the finicial climate.
And continuing in my dispute of your claims, Civ 5 is good for multiplayer? This is one of the main complaints against Civ 5. It has no animations during combat, and loads of the civs aren't balanced correctly, therefore ruining the game when you get stuck with Bismark on a map that has barbarians disabled.
Finally, GalCiv didn't have 'Tons' of cool races at release at all (about 8 i think). And the Lore of Elemental is not of elves and dwarves, but of humans and titans. There are already several mods available to those that want extra races (As i recall we already have undead and elves, both complete with models, buildings and techs.)
Posted by studmandudebro on 2010-10-28 13:24:13
http://www.joystiq.com/2010/09/04/elemental-launch-results-in-stardock-layoffs/
"Elemental's revenue was anticipated to provide the revenue both for our main games team's next project as well as a second team. Unfortunately, that is unlikely to happen so we've had to start laying people off."
---
Thats why I said civ 4 and FFH if you want a great singleplayer experience and civ 5 for multiplayer. If you are complaining about no animations in multiplayer then you obviously do not play mp.
Civ 5 is a hard game with the right setting, Elemental is just broken trash right now. Even ramped up to max there are so many easy obvious strats that dont even make sense. Like 300 rings and whatever.
"Elemental's revenue was anticipated to provide the revenue both for our main games team's next project as well as a second team. Unfortunately, that is unlikely to happen so we've had to start laying people off."
---
Thats why I said civ 4 and FFH if you want a great singleplayer experience and civ 5 for multiplayer. If you are complaining about no animations in multiplayer then you obviously do not play mp.
Civ 5 is a hard game with the right setting, Elemental is just broken trash right now. Even ramped up to max there are so many easy obvious strats that dont even make sense. Like 300 rings and whatever.
Posted by freak_in_a_frock on 2010-10-28 17:00:56
Fair enough we'll agree to disagree. Try building the 4 horsemen of the apocalypse in Civ 5, and then tell me it is a hard game. And I did honestly say that Elemental has flaws, most of which will be ironed out in the 1.1 release (beta of which is next week).
Posted by Britnoth on 2010-10-28 22:11:52
"Civ 5 is a hard game with the right setting"
This is a joke right? You can remove several AI on deity with just half a dozen horsemen.
You can keep expanding ad infinitum, because the new global happiness mechanic is incredibly dumbed down - once you get past -10, just carry on conquering while rush buying with gold.
You now spam city after city because of all the new bonuses that are flat bonus per city rather than a % bonus. Mass ICS spam is now back in 5 after being removed in 4.
Research is directly linked to civ size - making large civs runaway and further promoting more ICS and simplistic conquer strategies.
Diplomacy is now a joke, everyone hates you.
You can just buy a diplo win by bribing all the CS before the election.
Some of the civs are horrendously overpowered, even better than inca/rome were in 4.
I'll take a look at Elemental, at least they have the balls to admit what they made was unnacceptable. Firaxis have said sod all about the state of their game and the project directer basicly aditted to intentionally dumbing the game down for the console crowd.
Consolization V: Retro gaming in the wrong direction.
This is a joke right? You can remove several AI on deity with just half a dozen horsemen.
You can keep expanding ad infinitum, because the new global happiness mechanic is incredibly dumbed down - once you get past -10, just carry on conquering while rush buying with gold.
You now spam city after city because of all the new bonuses that are flat bonus per city rather than a % bonus. Mass ICS spam is now back in 5 after being removed in 4.
Research is directly linked to civ size - making large civs runaway and further promoting more ICS and simplistic conquer strategies.
Diplomacy is now a joke, everyone hates you.
You can just buy a diplo win by bribing all the CS before the election.
Some of the civs are horrendously overpowered, even better than inca/rome were in 4.
I'll take a look at Elemental, at least they have the balls to admit what they made was unnacceptable. Firaxis have said sod all about the state of their game and the project directer basicly aditted to intentionally dumbing the game down for the console crowd.
Consolization V: Retro gaming in the wrong direction.
Posted by Irgy on 2010-10-29 00:34:30
I also disagree that "Civ 5 is a hard game with the right setting". I've played a lot of Civ4, studied it, am currently quite competitive in a couple of multiplayer pitbosses with some top tier players, and I can't beat Deity. There's people who can, but they're quite limited in number and need to take it very seriously to do so (and still can't win more than some percentage).
Civ 5 by comparison I've had for a couple of weeks, only played 400 turns or so, and it's looking very likely that my first ever completed game will be a deity win. It's a lot easier, not so much because it's simpler but because horsemen are broken and the AI is hopeless. Mind you AIs have never been good, I think the game is just harder for them rather than them being any worse than usual.
Thanks for the heads up freak_in_a_frock. It seems odd in a way to recommend a game suffering worse levels of initial incompleteness and unbalance to people who are disillusioned with the incompleteness and unbalance of civ5, but I do respect your point about their reaction to the complaints. It sounds like an interesting game, I'll take a look at it.
Civ 5 by comparison I've had for a couple of weeks, only played 400 turns or so, and it's looking very likely that my first ever completed game will be a deity win. It's a lot easier, not so much because it's simpler but because horsemen are broken and the AI is hopeless. Mind you AIs have never been good, I think the game is just harder for them rather than them being any worse than usual.
Thanks for the heads up freak_in_a_frock. It seems odd in a way to recommend a game suffering worse levels of initial incompleteness and unbalance to people who are disillusioned with the incompleteness and unbalance of civ5, but I do respect your point about their reaction to the complaints. It sounds like an interesting game, I'll take a look at it.
Posted by studmandudebro on 2010-10-29 02:13:44
I was thinking more along the lines of one city challenge and such. Sure the AI gets steamrolled by horses but real players don't.
The new combat system is much more like a wargame instead of Civ 4s "clash of the economies" and is great when you are playing other humans. The level of AI required to provide such difficulty found in civ 4 would require something along the lines of one of those chess playing computers I think. Or static starting spots, and an AI designed around that.
Civ 4 is one of the most challenging single player experiences and if you want fantasy you can get the ffh mod
Civ 5 is a great multiplayer game
I don't understand why you would recommend for people to buy a game with a low 50 metacritic score.
This game is one to possibly keep on your watch list and listen to journalists and not creepy fanboyism.
The new combat system is much more like a wargame instead of Civ 4s "clash of the economies" and is great when you are playing other humans. The level of AI required to provide such difficulty found in civ 4 would require something along the lines of one of those chess playing computers I think. Or static starting spots, and an AI designed around that.
Civ 4 is one of the most challenging single player experiences and if you want fantasy you can get the ffh mod
Civ 5 is a great multiplayer game
I don't understand why you would recommend for people to buy a game with a low 50 metacritic score.
This game is one to possibly keep on your watch list and listen to journalists and not creepy fanboyism.
Posted by studmandudebro on 2010-10-29 02:18:54
"new benchmark for 4x fantasy games, replacing it's inspiration (Masters Of Magic)"
I think you mean new benchmarks for unplayable buggy releases, failed betas and promises instead of substance.
Civ 4 came with a thick manual and a read through will let you know exactly how everything works what things do and how to do them. Elemental is mostly a battle to navigate a clunky UI and mystery surprises such as wearing 100 rings or spell effects.
I think you mean new benchmarks for unplayable buggy releases, failed betas and promises instead of substance.
Civ 4 came with a thick manual and a read through will let you know exactly how everything works what things do and how to do them. Elemental is mostly a battle to navigate a clunky UI and mystery surprises such as wearing 100 rings or spell effects.
Posted by studmandudebro on 2010-10-29 02:19:42
This game doesn't even have a demo yet. It is that bad and they know it.
Posted by Fela on 2010-10-29 11:13:21
Did you try to reach the magical number of 7 comments or is there anything i overlooked in your last comments that you did not imply before?
Posted by freak_in_a_frock on 2010-10-29 11:21:08
As I have already pointed out, the meta-reviews don't take into account he patched version. I have also never said that the game was not without flaws (in fact i have been honest and stated that the game was completely bugged when released).
Civ 5's civlopedia is also full of bugs and errors, so i don't see why you think that is so much better. I am still of the opinion you haven't actually played Elemental Studman, since all your complaints seem to be based on out of date reviews and hearsay.
On fanboism, one could suggest your blind faith in Civ 5 will all its flaws and awful customer service suggests a lot more of a fanboi than a person who openly admits to a game having problems. You still haven't addressed the fact that muliplayer Civ 5 is seriously bugged and unbalanced. Worse still a lot of the flaws in the multiplayer aren't ever going to be adresed.
Civ 5 has many things that need sorting out before it becomes a great game, but the developers don't seem interested in sorting those probalems out, they seem far more interested in releases DLC. Do we really think it is a coincedince that Spain is not a civilization, and yet they also don't have a Spanish City State? look slike we all know what the first expansion will be....
I will reiterate, Elemental has a lot of potential, but it is unfulfilled atm. The reason that a demo hasn't been released is due to the game not being of a standard worthy of a demo yet. The developers realise this and are working hard to rectify it. There will be a demo released when the 1.1 patch is released, in the next few weeks. By all means wait for this demo if you are at all unsure. Even if you do wait for this demo and then purchase the game based on the demo you will still get the first expansion free, so you will still benefit from the good customer care.
Alternativily listen to Studman and buy Civ 5, then you can play an unchallenging single player game or be forced to find a challenge online (great for a turn based strategy game, i hope you have 3 or 4 hours spare because you can't save yet during muliplayer). Civ 5 will reward your loyalty by giving you the Mongol civilization, which is an overpowered race to make the game even more simple... Oh and you can't actually use the Mongol race online anyway...
Civ 5's civlopedia is also full of bugs and errors, so i don't see why you think that is so much better. I am still of the opinion you haven't actually played Elemental Studman, since all your complaints seem to be based on out of date reviews and hearsay.
On fanboism, one could suggest your blind faith in Civ 5 will all its flaws and awful customer service suggests a lot more of a fanboi than a person who openly admits to a game having problems. You still haven't addressed the fact that muliplayer Civ 5 is seriously bugged and unbalanced. Worse still a lot of the flaws in the multiplayer aren't ever going to be adresed.
Civ 5 has many things that need sorting out before it becomes a great game, but the developers don't seem interested in sorting those probalems out, they seem far more interested in releases DLC. Do we really think it is a coincedince that Spain is not a civilization, and yet they also don't have a Spanish City State? look slike we all know what the first expansion will be....
I will reiterate, Elemental has a lot of potential, but it is unfulfilled atm. The reason that a demo hasn't been released is due to the game not being of a standard worthy of a demo yet. The developers realise this and are working hard to rectify it. There will be a demo released when the 1.1 patch is released, in the next few weeks. By all means wait for this demo if you are at all unsure. Even if you do wait for this demo and then purchase the game based on the demo you will still get the first expansion free, so you will still benefit from the good customer care.
Alternativily listen to Studman and buy Civ 5, then you can play an unchallenging single player game or be forced to find a challenge online (great for a turn based strategy game, i hope you have 3 or 4 hours spare because you can't save yet during muliplayer). Civ 5 will reward your loyalty by giving you the Mongol civilization, which is an overpowered race to make the game even more simple... Oh and you can't actually use the Mongol race online anyway...
Posted by SillySod on 2010-10-29 13:17:40
...yay!
Posted by SillySod on 2010-10-29 13:17:50
Studman
Posted by SillySod on 2010-10-29 13:17:57
than
Posted by SillySod on 2010-10-29 13:18:04
posts
Posted by SillySod on 2010-10-29 13:18:12
more
Posted by SillySod on 2010-10-29 13:18:19
have
Posted by SillySod on 2010-10-29 13:18:24
I
Posted by studmandudebro on 2010-10-29 15:46:25
First off many of the bad reviews are after initial patching and quite a few stats held back on their reviews for weeks and weeks for this reason.
Also how can you say a game isn't demo worth but also say its worth a purchase?
They didn't just go for it and fail, they went for it and niggled an injury. If they don't make good on their promises its going to be a RIP. If they do then they just did ok.
I don't understand how you can be so strongly supportive of such shoddy work, at best they can do what they said they were going to do.
Civ 5 does have a few flaws but they are being patched out and its otherwise a shining product. Elemental is a turd with fundamental issues that needs a total redesign almost.
Also how can you say a game isn't demo worth but also say its worth a purchase?
They didn't just go for it and fail, they went for it and niggled an injury. If they don't make good on their promises its going to be a RIP. If they do then they just did ok.
I don't understand how you can be so strongly supportive of such shoddy work, at best they can do what they said they were going to do.
Civ 5 does have a few flaws but they are being patched out and its otherwise a shining product. Elemental is a turd with fundamental issues that needs a total redesign almost.
Posted by studmandudebro on 2010-10-29 15:52:03
Basically elemental is a really really bad age of wonders that looks a bit better.
Posted by freak_in_a_frock on 2010-10-29 16:54:14
You still haven't said whether you have actually played Elemental. I am still of the opinion you haven't since all your arguements seem to be based on out-dated reviews. I think it is very naive to think that Civ 5 only has a 'few flaws' and is a 'shining product'. The forums, both official and non-official are filled with complaints about virtyually every part of Civ 5. Where as the forums of Elemental are full of discussions with the develepoers on ways to enchance the game.
Face facts you are a Civ 5 fanboi. I myself quite like Civ 5, but feel that Elemental is also a good game. Out of the two i feel that Elemenatl has far more potential, not just because of the game design, but also due to the developers actually wanting to make the game better, rather than just finding a way for customers to pay more.
Doesn't it bother you that Civ 5 already has paid DLC available, and yet it still isn't even working properly? Surely 2k should concentrate on making there game work as intended before expecting people to pay more to play it? Try and look at the subject objectively and you will see that both games were released badly, the difference is Elemental acknowledges this and tries to fix it, Civ 5 relies on it's franchise to power past the problems.
This really has degenerated into a forum style topic, but hey-ho. As I said i was making people aware of another game, I am not forcing anbody to try it and I have tried to be honest when speaking about it. The offer is about to expire, therefore i suggest we now let this blog die too.
Face facts you are a Civ 5 fanboi. I myself quite like Civ 5, but feel that Elemental is also a good game. Out of the two i feel that Elemenatl has far more potential, not just because of the game design, but also due to the developers actually wanting to make the game better, rather than just finding a way for customers to pay more.
Doesn't it bother you that Civ 5 already has paid DLC available, and yet it still isn't even working properly? Surely 2k should concentrate on making there game work as intended before expecting people to pay more to play it? Try and look at the subject objectively and you will see that both games were released badly, the difference is Elemental acknowledges this and tries to fix it, Civ 5 relies on it's franchise to power past the problems.
This really has degenerated into a forum style topic, but hey-ho. As I said i was making people aware of another game, I am not forcing anbody to try it and I have tried to be honest when speaking about it. The offer is about to expire, therefore i suggest we now let this blog die too.
Posted by Britnoth on 2010-10-29 19:55:37
"I was thinking more along the lines of one city challenge and such. Sure the AI gets steamrolled by horses but real players don't."
HAHAHAHAHAAA! *wheeze* help! I cant breathe! :D
Your suggestion to make the game challenging is to a) remove the most important feature of the game ie expanding, and b) have only one city compared to the AIs 5-10 to make the game even challenging on DEITY???
"The new combat system is much more like a wargame instead of Civ 4s "clash of the economies" and is great when you are playing other humans. The level of AI required to provide such difficulty found in civ 4 would require something along the lines of one of those chess playing computers I think. Or static starting spots, and an AI designed around that."
Correct, the new combat IS more like a wargame,. thats the point. Why would the game be more economics/expansion/diplomacy/stategic thinking, rather than just a wargame that has WORSE AI than 1 UPT games 20 did years ago???
Oh, I dunno.. maybe the series being called CIVILIZATION might have something to do with it? >.>
IF I wanted to play a wargame, id play one of the dozens of other RTS games out there.. and saying 'play multiplayer' because the AI is so horrendously bad is th l amest excuse ever. Civ takes hours and hours to finish; its always been primarily a single player game.
"Doesn't it bother you that Civ 5 already has paid DLC available, and yet it still isn't even working properly?
This.
HAHAHAHAHAAA! *wheeze* help! I cant breathe! :D
Your suggestion to make the game challenging is to a) remove the most important feature of the game ie expanding, and b) have only one city compared to the AIs 5-10 to make the game even challenging on DEITY???
"The new combat system is much more like a wargame instead of Civ 4s "clash of the economies" and is great when you are playing other humans. The level of AI required to provide such difficulty found in civ 4 would require something along the lines of one of those chess playing computers I think. Or static starting spots, and an AI designed around that."
Correct, the new combat IS more like a wargame,. thats the point. Why would the game be more economics/expansion/diplomacy/stategic thinking, rather than just a wargame that has WORSE AI than 1 UPT games 20 did years ago???
Oh, I dunno.. maybe the series being called CIVILIZATION might have something to do with it? >.>
IF I wanted to play a wargame, id play one of the dozens of other RTS games out there.. and saying 'play multiplayer' because the AI is so horrendously bad is th l amest excuse ever. Civ takes hours and hours to finish; its always been primarily a single player game.
"Doesn't it bother you that Civ 5 already has paid DLC available, and yet it still isn't even working properly?
This.
Posted by Timlagor on 2010-10-30 20:47:06
It's not a niggle Studman: it's already a RIP but the APO is running onto the field...