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2012-06-05 14:46:58
48 votes, rating 3.5
48 votes, rating 3.5
CRP - Calcium Edition
*After an in game spec discussion with Jan-Erik*
There's endless debate over CRP and it's pro's/con's, and debate is good, so this is what I would like to see changed in CRP...to begin with!
1. DP back to +2
why reduce the effectiveness of a tool that every team could use, and increase the power of a tool that is only suited to 4 teams (6 including skaven/underworld)? With DP getting a buff, it would serve as a natural counter to clawPOMB, and more importantly get Paulhicks to play more :)
2. Sneaky git modification - 4+ when spotted by ref to stop sending off...(much like regen)
Sneaky git sucks. What a crap skill! This would buff sneaky git nicely, and would fit much better fluff wise. This stacked with the modified DP would make clawPOMB coaches think twice before piling on all over the place!
3. Khemri - Decay must go!
Decay. what a crap 'skill'. Its nerfing Khemri beyond belief. Give my favourite team a chance and do away with it! I would even lose it on nurgle, although many would see that as buffing an already monster team in CRP. And yes..I'm biased.
4. Slann - Genocide
It's the only humane thing to do :)
5. Humans - Catchers ST3
ST2 is ridiculous. AV7 with ST2 is daft. One of them must change, and fluff wise keeping their AV low to have them move faster is more sensible. This would make humans more competative, and by god do they need it right now!
6. Piling on - Unmodified re-roll on AV/Inj
Make Piling on unmodified - i.e. doesn't stack with claw/MB. Surely RR'ing injury is enough, without it being a RR with MB? As for Armour, you've already used your claws to rend the armour, now ur piling on...should be a standard RR on AV as far as I'm concerned. Still dangerous, but not as lethal as it was.
Just some of the major changes I would personally make. Hopefully I might get the opportunity to try these out in a league format at some time.
Now, bring on the 1 fest....Jan-Erik promised to rate this a '2' :)
There's endless debate over CRP and it's pro's/con's, and debate is good, so this is what I would like to see changed in CRP...to begin with!
1. DP back to +2
why reduce the effectiveness of a tool that every team could use, and increase the power of a tool that is only suited to 4 teams (6 including skaven/underworld)? With DP getting a buff, it would serve as a natural counter to clawPOMB, and more importantly get Paulhicks to play more :)
2. Sneaky git modification - 4+ when spotted by ref to stop sending off...(much like regen)
Sneaky git sucks. What a crap skill! This would buff sneaky git nicely, and would fit much better fluff wise. This stacked with the modified DP would make clawPOMB coaches think twice before piling on all over the place!
3. Khemri - Decay must go!
Decay. what a crap 'skill'. Its nerfing Khemri beyond belief. Give my favourite team a chance and do away with it! I would even lose it on nurgle, although many would see that as buffing an already monster team in CRP. And yes..I'm biased.
4. Slann - Genocide
It's the only humane thing to do :)
5. Humans - Catchers ST3
ST2 is ridiculous. AV7 with ST2 is daft. One of them must change, and fluff wise keeping their AV low to have them move faster is more sensible. This would make humans more competative, and by god do they need it right now!
6. Piling on - Unmodified re-roll on AV/Inj
Make Piling on unmodified - i.e. doesn't stack with claw/MB. Surely RR'ing injury is enough, without it being a RR with MB? As for Armour, you've already used your claws to rend the armour, now ur piling on...should be a standard RR on AV as far as I'm concerned. Still dangerous, but not as lethal as it was.
Just some of the major changes I would personally make. Hopefully I might get the opportunity to try these out in a league format at some time.
Now, bring on the 1 fest....Jan-Erik promised to rate this a '2' :)
Comments
Posted by Cloggy on 2012-06-05 15:29:59
Sorry mate, had to 5 it :)
The one problem I see is that if you increase the power of fouling to counter a skill you nerf at the same time you introduce a couple of simultaneous changes that impact eachother. This makes it hard to balance and may introduce a new problem, making people foam at the mouth about fouling without the eye but with increased power.
The one problem I see is that if you increase the power of fouling to counter a skill you nerf at the same time you introduce a couple of simultaneous changes that impact eachother. This makes it hard to balance and may introduce a new problem, making people foam at the mouth about fouling without the eye but with increased power.
Posted by Garion on 2012-06-05 15:31:28
yar, agree with cloggy, if increased fouling comes back you need to keep it in check. If im not wrong I seem to remember you saying you preferred the eye anyway?
Posted by Garion on 2012-06-05 15:34:22
but yeah i rated 5 too 6 if the eye came back
Posted by Niebling on 2012-06-05 15:57:05
Lose always hungry while your at it :)
Posted by Gritter on 2012-06-05 15:57:08
Agree with most of this including follow on comments about the eye.
Not sure what the 'kill all slanns' item is about though..... are you after all those frogs legs and in fact...FRENCH?!?!?
Not sure what the 'kill all slanns' item is about though..... are you after all those frogs legs and in fact...FRENCH?!?!?
Posted by Calcium on 2012-06-05 16:11:25
lol @ Gritter....leave the French alone, they are weak enough without us heaping on the pain...just ask djoz :) I just really dislike slann, I think they are ridiculous fluff wise and mass any skill is daft on a team. I don't like zons either :)
@ Cloggy/Garion...I would happily bring the eye back. I thought it was a good mechanic and a great way to counter foul monsters like well...me :)
@ Neilbing - always hungry...on trolls?
@ Cloggy/Garion...I would happily bring the eye back. I thought it was a good mechanic and a great way to counter foul monsters like well...me :)
@ Neilbing - always hungry...on trolls?
Posted by Niebling on 2012-06-05 16:14:22
Yes I hate that skill so much why does the goblins need one more 2+
Posted by PainState on 2012-06-05 16:19:28
Rated a 1 due to the stupid eye getting mentioned as a good thing.
Sneaky Git buff as proposed is lame.
SG buff needs to be this.
Git is only sent off on a double roll on the injury result. Thus he only EVER has a 1 in 6 chance of getting sent off.
SG/DP would then be a desirable skill set.
DP does not need to go back to +2...just give it +1 on armor check from fouler. Couple that with the new SG and now you have a real fouling threat on the field.
Sneaky Git buff as proposed is lame.
SG buff needs to be this.
Git is only sent off on a double roll on the injury result. Thus he only EVER has a 1 in 6 chance of getting sent off.
SG/DP would then be a desirable skill set.
DP does not need to go back to +2...just give it +1 on armor check from fouler. Couple that with the new SG and now you have a real fouling threat on the field.
Posted by Calcium on 2012-06-05 16:23:41
Um...isn't that what sneaky git is now pain?
And thx for the 1, why change a habit of a lifetime? :)
And thx for the 1, why change a habit of a lifetime? :)
Posted by Calcium on 2012-06-05 16:25:11
@ Nielbing - Never considered always hungry an issue, but im not a prolific gobbo player...I think there's far more important issues than the rare 1,1 troll eating scenario :)
Posted by Beerox on 2012-06-05 16:59:53
+1 DP too weak, +2 too strong. +1 on both rolls?
One thing I'm sure of, removal of Decay is a good thing. How often do you see a Tomb Guardian in the badly hurt box? Rare...
Not as if Khemri will be OP without Decay. They will still suck.
Idk about piling on. I probably hate it in any form, as long as damage can be inflicted without direct risk. Save that for Zara and her knife :)
One thing I'm sure of, removal of Decay is a good thing. How often do you see a Tomb Guardian in the badly hurt box? Rare...
Not as if Khemri will be OP without Decay. They will still suck.
Idk about piling on. I probably hate it in any form, as long as damage can be inflicted without direct risk. Save that for Zara and her knife :)
Posted by Garion on 2012-06-05 17:04:21
boo to removing always hungry, thats the funniest thing about playing goblins.
@calcium, no at the moment, you get sent off if you roll a double on either as long as break av with the first roll. so its still 1 in 3 if you break av.
I have heard that change from painstate for a while now, i get the buff but it still wouldn't be enough to bother taking it.
@calcium, no at the moment, you get sent off if you roll a double on either as long as break av with the first roll. so its still 1 in 3 if you break av.
I have heard that change from painstate for a while now, i get the buff but it still wouldn't be enough to bother taking it.
Posted by PainState on 2012-06-05 17:08:39
No calcium that is not how the SG works right now.
Currently the Git is sent off on double roll IF he breaks armor. BUT he is still sent off if the Double roll is for armor or injury.
The new SG would only ever get sent off IF the injury roll is a double. Thus he would be sent off only on a 1 in 6.
The current SG has the same odds of getting sent off as a DP if he breaks armor. His only advantage is if he does not break armor he wont get sent off.
Currently the Git is sent off on double roll IF he breaks armor. BUT he is still sent off if the Double roll is for armor or injury.
The new SG would only ever get sent off IF the injury roll is a double. Thus he would be sent off only on a 1 in 6.
The current SG has the same odds of getting sent off as a DP if he breaks armor. His only advantage is if he does not break armor he wont get sent off.
Posted by koadah on 2012-06-05 18:02:43
1. DP back to +2?
Nah. To tremble before a one skill lino? That's the death of the Box.
+1 to the AV roll. i.e. the fouler assists the foul.
2. Sneaky git modification.
Only sent off on injury double not armour double even when armour is broken. OR
When sent of goes to the KO box and follows KO rules.
3. Khemri - Decay must go!
Umm... OK
4. Slann - Genocide
Eh?
5. Humans - Catchers ST3
Nah. AV8 and maybe cheaper blitzers/Ogre
6. Piling on - Unmodified re-roll on AV/Inj
Nah. Claw cannot be used on the PO roll but MB can. POMB for Humans oh yeah. ;)
Also MB & Claw do not stack.
Nah. To tremble before a one skill lino? That's the death of the Box.
+1 to the AV roll. i.e. the fouler assists the foul.
2. Sneaky git modification.
Only sent off on injury double not armour double even when armour is broken. OR
When sent of goes to the KO box and follows KO rules.
3. Khemri - Decay must go!
Umm... OK
4. Slann - Genocide
Eh?
5. Humans - Catchers ST3
Nah. AV8 and maybe cheaper blitzers/Ogre
6. Piling on - Unmodified re-roll on AV/Inj
Nah. Claw cannot be used on the PO roll but MB can. POMB for Humans oh yeah. ;)
Also MB & Claw do not stack.
Posted by Wreckage on 2012-06-05 18:11:06
1. seems a bit broken to me
2. sneaky git only let ban players on an injury roll would be great, don't really see the point in the proposed rule variant.
3. Khemri are currently the team in the box with the highest winning stats. I'd be carefull to improve them.
4. Huh? Why? I like my slann.
5. Not a bad suggestion.
6. I was always more in favor to make it work just on armor rolls and make all skills stack just for the beauty of it and because they shouldn't cancel each other out. But I see your way is what the main stream decided to go with now.
However reducing clawpomb and improving dp at the same time sounds a bit like an overkill. Kind of the faulty logic the rules comittee used to end up with the rules like they are now in the first place.
2. sneaky git only let ban players on an injury roll would be great, don't really see the point in the proposed rule variant.
3. Khemri are currently the team in the box with the highest winning stats. I'd be carefull to improve them.
4. Huh? Why? I like my slann.
5. Not a bad suggestion.
6. I was always more in favor to make it work just on armor rolls and make all skills stack just for the beauty of it and because they shouldn't cancel each other out. But I see your way is what the main stream decided to go with now.
However reducing clawpomb and improving dp at the same time sounds a bit like an overkill. Kind of the faulty logic the rules comittee used to end up with the rules like they are now in the first place.
Posted by Calcium on 2012-06-05 18:12:15
@ Koadah
gotta be fair, when it was Khemri mass DP in LRB4 box, the box did die. You may well have a point there, but I remain in the unnerf DP camp.
gotta be fair, when it was Khemri mass DP in LRB4 box, the box did die. You may well have a point there, but I remain in the unnerf DP camp.
Posted by Calcium on 2012-06-05 18:14:16
@ wreckage....
Logic has little to do with my suggestions, it's just what I would enjoy playing with. I never wanted this game to be 'balanced' or 'logical' and I think the more that it's pushed in that direction, the poorer it becomes. Surely Blood Bowl should be chaotic?
Logic has little to do with my suggestions, it's just what I would enjoy playing with. I never wanted this game to be 'balanced' or 'logical' and I think the more that it's pushed in that direction, the poorer it becomes. Surely Blood Bowl should be chaotic?
Posted by Wreckage on 2012-06-05 18:44:32
I think chaotic mechanics are nice, they mean diversity. But things don't get very diverse if things aren't logically balanced. The more evenly different strategies can be matched, the more different strategies we will see. Balance as a means in itself has no meaning but chaos in itself can't be created. To me lrb4 was always too balanced, too clean, proposing 11 highelf linemen teams and I felt like LRb5 moved a good step towards the chaotic with all the secret weapons and stars as inducements, reintroduction of cards. I like that you can have now super stars and do crazy things all the time and that you don't have to cover all your players in clusters together out of fear that everyone who gets separated will get the boot. It always felt to me like lrb4 didn't have quite the real bloodbowl spirit and now it's back. That's nice.
Posted by Calcium on 2012-06-05 18:57:41
wreckage....That wall of text screams 'PIXEL HUGGER' to me, nothing more.
Posted by koadah on 2012-06-05 19:44:57
Pixel hugger?
But you want to nerf PO yer traitor. ;)
But you want to nerf PO yer traitor. ;)
Posted by Calcium on 2012-06-05 19:48:15
:)
Posted by nin on 2012-06-05 20:31:55
6. PO: I like Wrecage's idea about only Av roll but keep the stacks. But there are so many variants proposed...
5. Humans: we want humans to be better? Then, go all out near to tier 1, A access for blitzers coupled with that St3 Catchers...Imho it's either they become major aspirants or why care?
4. Slann are ok.
3. Agree...but this starts to look like a narrowing the tiers aproach.
2-1. Fouling: eye was fun, but a bit tricky in TT. I don't like +2 DP, it's a "1 general skill" army...I'd like better a 2-3 skill combo.
SG: only sent off on injury double and allways assists fouls, even when in TZs, including his own.
DP: +1/+1
5. Humans: we want humans to be better? Then, go all out near to tier 1, A access for blitzers coupled with that St3 Catchers...Imho it's either they become major aspirants or why care?
4. Slann are ok.
3. Agree...but this starts to look like a narrowing the tiers aproach.
2-1. Fouling: eye was fun, but a bit tricky in TT. I don't like +2 DP, it's a "1 general skill" army...I'd like better a 2-3 skill combo.
SG: only sent off on injury double and allways assists fouls, even when in TZs, including his own.
DP: +1/+1
Posted by JimmyFantastic on 2012-06-05 20:32:14
good points, but kill all zons too!
Posted by Niebling on 2012-06-05 22:40:28
I concede its a minor thing :) but since we are nameing the stuff about crp we dislike, I might aswell throw it in there :)
its not about the rare 1,1 troll eating, I dont care s*** about the eating part, the 2nd dice roll does not matter.
What bugs me is that the TTM plays of the Gobo team is gimped with another 2+ loner roll, so every time a Gobo teams try the TTM stuff, they have at least two 2+ rolls and why? because of some legacy fluf stuff.
Always hungry makes no sense in the game now a days, else we should bring back the chance for a Werewolf to pie up against a treeman or for skeletons to be unable to regenerate because the Werewolf runs of with his bone....
its not about the rare 1,1 troll eating, I dont care s*** about the eating part, the 2nd dice roll does not matter.
What bugs me is that the TTM plays of the Gobo team is gimped with another 2+ loner roll, so every time a Gobo teams try the TTM stuff, they have at least two 2+ rolls and why? because of some legacy fluf stuff.
Always hungry makes no sense in the game now a days, else we should bring back the chance for a Werewolf to pie up against a treeman or for skeletons to be unable to regenerate because the Werewolf runs of with his bone....
Posted by Calcium on 2012-06-05 22:51:35
I loved that fluff regarding werewolves and a skelly's tibia!
But I agree, Always hungry impedes an already difficult play.
But I agree, Always hungry impedes an already difficult play.
Posted by hale on 2012-06-06 00:21:12
i was hoping for bewbies
Posted by awambawamb on 2012-06-06 04:40:33
Piling On as it was.
at least makes sense: i bet there's a difference between being used as a carpet by a rat lino and being SQUISHED by an ogre.
at least makes sense: i bet there's a difference between being used as a carpet by a rat lino and being SQUISHED by an ogre.
Posted by Arktoris on 2012-06-06 06:06:22
make sneaky git a 4+ save vs the ref.
that would enough of a change to make everything good again.
that would enough of a change to make everything good again.
Posted by Calcium on 2012-06-06 13:58:47
I knew Arktoris would see it my way ;)
Posted by PainState on 2012-06-06 16:52:47
4+ Save huh? Still not good enough to waste a double pick on to take.