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2013-07-10 12:47:49
31 votes, rating 5.4
31 votes, rating 5.4
Khemries blog: TG skills
After 200+ BB games for Khemries (4 teams, combined record: 110/51/59), I decided to share some thoughts about Khemries team development and tactics.
First topic - TG development.
First skill: Guard vs. Mighty Blow
Guard and Mighty Blow are 2 best skills for TG. But which one should be taken first?
Popular opinion is: MB helps you skill up, Guard wins games.
Well, I dont agree with that opinion. MB helps remove opponent players from the field. It perfectly good way to win games :) I find Guard more important than MB only in games vs Dwarves and Chaos Dwarves. Maybe vs Orcs. Vs everything else MB is equal or better than Guard.
I think sequence MB,G, MB, MB is best. (1 Guard for easy 3D blocks on LOS).
Break Tackle vs. Stand Firm
I think good rule of thumb is: if TG has block, take Break Tackle, else take Stand Firm.
Reason: Stand Firm discourages -2D blocks.
Without block, opponents with block has 25% chance to knock down TG with -2D block (~31% chance to roll a skull, ~69% to get free). If TG has block, opponent has only ~8% chance to knock down TG (31% for skull, ~44% chance to get free). So, risk/reward ration for -2D blocks becomes much lower.
On the other hand, Break Tackle very often is used on Blitz. Blitzing with Block is much better than blitzing without.
EDIT: If TG has SF, opponent with block and -2D has 25% chance to knock down TG, ~31% chance to knock down himself, 44% stay next to TG.
Pilling On
Tested it, got some mixed feelings. Some random thoughts:
1) Block is must.
2) PO is super effective vs. 11 players non-regen teams. TG is safe on the flour, because 11 players teams don't foul, and PO + some fouling often mean 2nd half is like walk in the park.
3) It helps you to make sure opponent won't recover, when you get good start. However, it doesn't help tough matches (even worse, when Im getting beaten, I feel uncotrollable urge to PO and kill stuff).
Grab
Didn't tested. Maybe somebody wants to share his experience?
Multiple Block
Same as Grab.
Second double
So many Options... Dodge, Tackle, Fend, Side Step, Diving Tackle, Frenzy...
I got only 1 dodge so far, on 6S player. BT will be next. I see great potential, but only time will tell.
+MA, +AV
+AV is probably useless. My TG gets knocked down not very often. Also, a lots of Claws in the Box...
+MA would be fun to test, especialy combined with BT.
First topic - TG development.
First skill: Guard vs. Mighty Blow
Guard and Mighty Blow are 2 best skills for TG. But which one should be taken first?
Popular opinion is: MB helps you skill up, Guard wins games.
Well, I dont agree with that opinion. MB helps remove opponent players from the field. It perfectly good way to win games :) I find Guard more important than MB only in games vs Dwarves and Chaos Dwarves. Maybe vs Orcs. Vs everything else MB is equal or better than Guard.
I think sequence MB,G, MB, MB is best. (1 Guard for easy 3D blocks on LOS).
Break Tackle vs. Stand Firm
I think good rule of thumb is: if TG has block, take Break Tackle, else take Stand Firm.
Reason: Stand Firm discourages -2D blocks.
Without block, opponents with block has 25% chance to knock down TG with -2D block (~31% chance to roll a skull, ~69% to get free). If TG has block, opponent has only ~8% chance to knock down TG (31% for skull, ~44% chance to get free). So, risk/reward ration for -2D blocks becomes much lower.
On the other hand, Break Tackle very often is used on Blitz. Blitzing with Block is much better than blitzing without.
EDIT: If TG has SF, opponent with block and -2D has 25% chance to knock down TG, ~31% chance to knock down himself, 44% stay next to TG.
Pilling On
Tested it, got some mixed feelings. Some random thoughts:
1) Block is must.
2) PO is super effective vs. 11 players non-regen teams. TG is safe on the flour, because 11 players teams don't foul, and PO + some fouling often mean 2nd half is like walk in the park.
3) It helps you to make sure opponent won't recover, when you get good start. However, it doesn't help tough matches (even worse, when Im getting beaten, I feel uncotrollable urge to PO and kill stuff).
Grab
Didn't tested. Maybe somebody wants to share his experience?
Multiple Block
Same as Grab.
Second double
So many Options... Dodge, Tackle, Fend, Side Step, Diving Tackle, Frenzy...
I got only 1 dodge so far, on 6S player. BT will be next. I see great potential, but only time will tell.
+MA, +AV
+AV is probably useless. My TG gets knocked down not very often. Also, a lots of Claws in the Box...
+MA would be fun to test, especialy combined with BT.
Comments
Posted by BooAhl on 2013-07-10 13:24:11
Good Blog
Posted by uzkulak on 2013-07-10 13:31:22
yep, I agree with MB 1st for the reasons above. Also people dodge away from MB players more often. Standing and marking a str5 player ovt of the game is a different challenge when he has MB.
I assvme yov vse the blitz-ras as the real killers?
I assvme yov vse the blitz-ras as the real killers?
Posted by LucaAnt on 2013-07-10 14:20:36
Grab combined with PO is fantastic (bye bye fend), and is good to surf pixels too.
Multiple Block = Use it only in LRB4, if you have just put that on 1 of your tgs and you cannot change it because you just played a game retire him as soon as possible.
+1MA all the life, then give him break tackle
Second double = depending on skills that the guardian has
Multiple Block = Use it only in LRB4, if you have just put that on 1 of your tgs and you cannot change it because you just played a game retire him as soon as possible.
+1MA all the life, then give him break tackle
Second double = depending on skills that the guardian has
Posted by ThePeoplesChamp on 2013-07-10 14:36:13
listen to Carlo, he kills all mens.
Posted by Chainsaw on 2013-07-10 16:51:02
Good blog. Echoes my sentiments/experiences.
Posted by fly on 2013-07-10 17:28:56
awesome, thanks for sharing that experience.
Posted by Lorebass on 2013-07-10 17:42:08
grab is great when you plan on multiblock though i'd generally do that if the TG rolls a double for block first.
Posted by Kelkka on 2013-07-10 18:02:41
I think the G/MB dilemma depends on how long you plan to play the team, and in what development phase it is currently.
For fresh team playing at low tv that mixed mb/g route is just fine. At low tv you benefit more from mb as you have enough STR to keep most opponents at bay.
But once your team is developed higher, you start facing more deadly teams and start losing TGs. At this point the role of TGs change imo and they become mostly just roadblocks.
You can't rely your team long term strategy on developed TGs because of claw and decay. Hence you get to keep maybe 1 or 2 good TGs and the rest 2-3 are good as rookies or perfect with just guard.
For fresh team playing at low tv that mixed mb/g route is just fine. At low tv you benefit more from mb as you have enough STR to keep most opponents at bay.
But once your team is developed higher, you start facing more deadly teams and start losing TGs. At this point the role of TGs change imo and they become mostly just roadblocks.
You can't rely your team long term strategy on developed TGs because of claw and decay. Hence you get to keep maybe 1 or 2 good TGs and the rest 2-3 are good as rookies or perfect with just guard.
Posted by Kelkka on 2013-07-10 18:06:02
Oh and I like grab very much. For agile teams you can counter SS, position target for more difficult dodge/move him further from where the focus on field is.
And for bashy teams you can isolate single players, diminish effectiveness of their guard this way, set up nice fouls, counter fend etc.
Not everyone should have grab, but 1-2 for the teams is veyr nice to have imo.
And for bashy teams you can isolate single players, diminish effectiveness of their guard this way, set up nice fouls, counter fend etc.
Not everyone should have grab, but 1-2 for the teams is veyr nice to have imo.
Posted by Beerox on 2013-07-10 18:07:15
No stats for mine, except +ST maybe. I won't even spend any time considering them. How often will you use +MA in a scrum? They belong in a scrum, or at least holding the edge (trapping others in the scrum). You know, big guy stuff.
I can never find time for Grab. People just dodge away anyways.
Guard, MB will be used most often.
BT, SF are the next tier
Multiblock, Grab use would be less often.
PO? Idk, I'd rather have them standing. A matter of style I guess, I'm big into the position game.
Second double? That is an open field of options.
I can never find time for Grab. People just dodge away anyways.
Guard, MB will be used most often.
BT, SF are the next tier
Multiblock, Grab use would be less often.
PO? Idk, I'd rather have them standing. A matter of style I guess, I'm big into the position game.
Second double? That is an open field of options.
Posted by Overhamsteren on 2013-07-10 19:55:37
My Khemri are a little strange since my blitz-ras died but my guardians have survived very well so I have:
1st, mighty blow, guard, stand firm
2nd, mighty blow, guard, +ST, stand firm
3rd, mighty blow, guard
4th, guard, mighty blow, block
I would definitely take mighty blow as first skill now, it just makes skilling up a lot faster and marking the guardians a bit more dangerous.
Stand firm haven't been that great without block so far but I feel people have had too good luck with ½ dice blocks. ;)
+ST is awesome, block is great too but +ST is definitely worth it. Would try out +MA too, when guardians get a chance to advance they need to move it, I often end up doing a couple of GFIs with them. Also if they get knocked down then +MA doubles their movement. :P
Sidestepping blodgers is a great pain for Khemri, grab is very interesting. Going with the above need for speed thoughts on guardians break tackle is also looking good even if only used once or twice in a game it could change a lot. It also threatens loose cages/screens with a crazy blitz on the ball option, Khemri doesn't come with a lot of options.
No one mentioned thick skull? Even a KO guardian is a tough blow, might be a viable pick, although I generally protect my guardians a lot so maybe not for me.
I might need to re-evaluate my stand firm skilling policy.
2nd double I think Tackle, especially when 1 or more blitz-ras are re-skilling there is great need for some tackle.
1st, mighty blow, guard, stand firm
2nd, mighty blow, guard, +ST, stand firm
3rd, mighty blow, guard
4th, guard, mighty blow, block
I would definitely take mighty blow as first skill now, it just makes skilling up a lot faster and marking the guardians a bit more dangerous.
Stand firm haven't been that great without block so far but I feel people have had too good luck with ½ dice blocks. ;)
+ST is awesome, block is great too but +ST is definitely worth it. Would try out +MA too, when guardians get a chance to advance they need to move it, I often end up doing a couple of GFIs with them. Also if they get knocked down then +MA doubles their movement. :P
Sidestepping blodgers is a great pain for Khemri, grab is very interesting. Going with the above need for speed thoughts on guardians break tackle is also looking good even if only used once or twice in a game it could change a lot. It also threatens loose cages/screens with a crazy blitz on the ball option, Khemri doesn't come with a lot of options.
No one mentioned thick skull? Even a KO guardian is a tough blow, might be a viable pick, although I generally protect my guardians a lot so maybe not for me.
I might need to re-evaluate my stand firm skilling policy.
2nd double I think Tackle, especially when 1 or more blitz-ras are re-skilling there is great need for some tackle.
Posted by Roland on 2013-07-10 19:55:38
This is just what i need!
Thanks! :D
Thanks! :D
Posted by Beerox on 2013-07-10 21:27:01
A good experiment:
1) Get MB, then see how long it takes to get Guard
2) Get Guard, and see how long it takes to get MB
See for yourself, You'll be amazed :) I had a Guard TG take until 200+ blocks to get his second skill. Drove me crazy.
It's not really a matter of raising up TV, it's that multi-skill TGs are just better players period. Plus they have more chances for doubles.
1) Get MB, then see how long it takes to get Guard
2) Get Guard, and see how long it takes to get MB
See for yourself, You'll be amazed :) I had a Guard TG take until 200+ blocks to get his second skill. Drove me crazy.
It's not really a matter of raising up TV, it's that multi-skill TGs are just better players period. Plus they have more chances for doubles.
Posted by Nightbird on 2013-07-11 00:09:04
Interesting blog. 6
Posted by Roland on 2013-11-15 08:48:35
Thick skull?