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2013-04-09 02:39:38
27 votes, rating 2.3
27 votes, rating 2.3
"Fixing" Blood Bowl
After my latest dicing at the table, I sat back with a beer and set about "fixing" Blood Bowl.
My biggest pain point is around injuries.
1) Crowd pushes should be modified +/- by FAME. If you have have the FAME, and a player of yours is crowd pushed the roll would be minus fame. If your opponent has the fame, and you have a player crowd pushed the roll would be plus FAME.
2) Piling On. I hate the idea of a re-roll, outside of Team/Leader re-rolls. I'm of the mind that PO should be declared before the block, and if the opposing player goes down the blocking player adds their strength to the armor roll. (Ogre blocks Human Lino. Ogre declares PO, lineman goes down, Ogre goes prone and adds 5 to the armor roll)
If the opposing player doesn't go down, PO isn't used, obviously.
3) Injuries. I'm of the mind that the Apothecary needs serious work. I propose the following.
1: Injury remains
2-5: Injury becomes a BH
6: Player is in reserves.
As it stands the Apothecary is terrible, and in most cases a waste of 50k
4) Deaths. I cannot fathom, how in the world of Blood Bowl, that you can't make money selling corpses. I propose a flat 30k price for a dead guy.
4a) Resurrection. Again, in a fantasy setting, why can't your player be "mostly dead" you know, he needs a miracle, or a healer. If a player dies in game, and you pay the players cost, you resurrect the player, and he counts as an MNG. Plus, this gives high bankroll teams something to do with their money.
5)Going for it. It boggles my mind, that on a nice sunny day, on a flat field, that a professional athlete has a 1/6 chance of falling on their face. I propose the following. Either:
a) Every player has the equivalent of Sure Feet, allowing a re-roll. The Sure Feet skill would then be removed.
b) Players that fail the GFI are merely prone, no armor/injury roll is made.
6) Dodging. As with GFI above, I cannot fathom the logic behind a player failing a dodge, into an open space, and dying. Dodging into a TZ, ok, that's going to hurt, dodging away from a player it just doesn't make sense. I suggest, again, a failed dodge into an empty square (no TZ) results in the player going prone, and a turnover, but no armor or injury roll is made.
7) Claw, I don't like Claw, but more so, I don't like Mutations. Short solution, Mutations count as +40k.
Long-term solution, I feel that claw should reduce opposing armor to 7, after modifiers. You block a Dark Elf lineman with Claw, and MB, you reduce the armor to 7, not 6.
8) Mighty Blow, should be declared before armor is rolled. Or it doesn't apply to the armor. If it's called on the armor, then it's not used on the injury. Pick it first, and stick with it.
9) Regeneration. Too many times have I lost games to an undead/necromantic team who's coach can't roll less than a 4. I propose the following:
Regen Roll: 4+
RIP->MNG
MNG->BH
BH->KO
Still effective, but it's not the game-changer that it is today.
10) Blitz. Instead of a free turn, Blitz should be the offensive version of quick snap, allowing the offense to move one square.
There you have it, just a few of my thoughts. Most of which I'm sure have been discussed.
My biggest pain point is around injuries.
1) Crowd pushes should be modified +/- by FAME. If you have have the FAME, and a player of yours is crowd pushed the roll would be minus fame. If your opponent has the fame, and you have a player crowd pushed the roll would be plus FAME.
2) Piling On. I hate the idea of a re-roll, outside of Team/Leader re-rolls. I'm of the mind that PO should be declared before the block, and if the opposing player goes down the blocking player adds their strength to the armor roll. (Ogre blocks Human Lino. Ogre declares PO, lineman goes down, Ogre goes prone and adds 5 to the armor roll)
If the opposing player doesn't go down, PO isn't used, obviously.
3) Injuries. I'm of the mind that the Apothecary needs serious work. I propose the following.
1: Injury remains
2-5: Injury becomes a BH
6: Player is in reserves.
As it stands the Apothecary is terrible, and in most cases a waste of 50k
4) Deaths. I cannot fathom, how in the world of Blood Bowl, that you can't make money selling corpses. I propose a flat 30k price for a dead guy.
4a) Resurrection. Again, in a fantasy setting, why can't your player be "mostly dead" you know, he needs a miracle, or a healer. If a player dies in game, and you pay the players cost, you resurrect the player, and he counts as an MNG. Plus, this gives high bankroll teams something to do with their money.
5)Going for it. It boggles my mind, that on a nice sunny day, on a flat field, that a professional athlete has a 1/6 chance of falling on their face. I propose the following. Either:
a) Every player has the equivalent of Sure Feet, allowing a re-roll. The Sure Feet skill would then be removed.
b) Players that fail the GFI are merely prone, no armor/injury roll is made.
6) Dodging. As with GFI above, I cannot fathom the logic behind a player failing a dodge, into an open space, and dying. Dodging into a TZ, ok, that's going to hurt, dodging away from a player it just doesn't make sense. I suggest, again, a failed dodge into an empty square (no TZ) results in the player going prone, and a turnover, but no armor or injury roll is made.
7) Claw, I don't like Claw, but more so, I don't like Mutations. Short solution, Mutations count as +40k.
Long-term solution, I feel that claw should reduce opposing armor to 7, after modifiers. You block a Dark Elf lineman with Claw, and MB, you reduce the armor to 7, not 6.
8) Mighty Blow, should be declared before armor is rolled. Or it doesn't apply to the armor. If it's called on the armor, then it's not used on the injury. Pick it first, and stick with it.
9) Regeneration. Too many times have I lost games to an undead/necromantic team who's coach can't roll less than a 4. I propose the following:
Regen Roll: 4+
RIP->MNG
MNG->BH
BH->KO
Still effective, but it's not the game-changer that it is today.
10) Blitz. Instead of a free turn, Blitz should be the offensive version of quick snap, allowing the offense to move one square.
There you have it, just a few of my thoughts. Most of which I'm sure have been discussed.
Comments
Posted by pythrr on 2013-04-09 02:43:43
pixel hugger
Posted by Jeffro on 2013-04-09 02:48:59
I like sitting back with a beer too, but it doesn't make me hallucinate...
Posted by ignatzami on 2013-04-09 02:52:27
Less a pixel hugger, and more a coach who wishes DreadBall was actually good in long term league play.
The injury mechanics in DB are great, I wish Blood Bowl was half as good.
The injury mechanics in DB are great, I wish Blood Bowl was half as good.
Posted by cyric612 on 2013-04-09 02:56:25
Just make sure you get your mostly dead guy to miracle max in time!
Posted by seanh1986 on 2013-04-09 03:01:11
Some very good comments and suggestions but also some that I think need some refining.
1. I like this a lot!
2. At least here you don't get to RR the inj roll... But then ogres would have a +5 modifier to av rolls, that's insane lol. +6 with MB. I think PO should be as follows: roll a D6.
1: the player on the ground sticks up a leg or arm and hits the pile-oner, make an AV/INJ roll for the pile-oner, any cas points are given to the player who was being piled on.
2: the pile on attempt fails, player is placed prone (no AV roll)
3-6: RR Av or inj roll (?)
3. Good suggestion
4. With the advent of journeymen, this seems less important
5. the point is that the player is going for it more than what he can actually do. his movement is his maximum movement but now he's pushing his body beyond its limits. i think it's fine as is. otherwise you're basically boosting everyone's movement by 1-2.
6.dodging represents the act of being tripped while you're running away from someone and/or while running into someone. I don't think anyone's ever died from a trip... So maybe just cap all casualties as BH if it comes from a missed gfi or dodge.
7. Claw should be +2 to armor roll (to a min of 7 av). At least treemen should count as having 8 av... Or have claw not stack with MB.
8. I think MB is fine as is.
9. Regenerate is already horribly inconsistent, 50% only.
10. Blitz comes from the term in american football where the defense sends more guys than normal to attempt to sack the quarterback, it's well represented by the defense getting the first turn.
1. I like this a lot!
2. At least here you don't get to RR the inj roll... But then ogres would have a +5 modifier to av rolls, that's insane lol. +6 with MB. I think PO should be as follows: roll a D6.
1: the player on the ground sticks up a leg or arm and hits the pile-oner, make an AV/INJ roll for the pile-oner, any cas points are given to the player who was being piled on.
2: the pile on attempt fails, player is placed prone (no AV roll)
3-6: RR Av or inj roll (?)
3. Good suggestion
4. With the advent of journeymen, this seems less important
5. the point is that the player is going for it more than what he can actually do. his movement is his maximum movement but now he's pushing his body beyond its limits. i think it's fine as is. otherwise you're basically boosting everyone's movement by 1-2.
6.dodging represents the act of being tripped while you're running away from someone and/or while running into someone. I don't think anyone's ever died from a trip... So maybe just cap all casualties as BH if it comes from a missed gfi or dodge.
7. Claw should be +2 to armor roll (to a min of 7 av). At least treemen should count as having 8 av... Or have claw not stack with MB.
8. I think MB is fine as is.
9. Regenerate is already horribly inconsistent, 50% only.
10. Blitz comes from the term in american football where the defense sends more guys than normal to attempt to sack the quarterback, it's well represented by the defense getting the first turn.
Posted by Qaz on 2013-04-09 03:05:23
Now that would create some monster teams since no one is getting hurt or old
Posted by Dan-Da-Man on 2013-04-09 03:12:18
dreadball is aweful lol
Posted by neoliminal on 2013-04-09 03:41:50
This sure takes me back... like being on the BBRC all over again.
Posted by Overhamsteren on 2013-04-09 07:28:33
Lol "taking a big steaming dump on" Blood Bowl :O
Posted by DonnyRainboe on 2013-04-09 09:12:16
1. Sounds okay, but surfing should be more effective at hurting men than Clawpombing because it takes more skill to do. Maybe just give crowd MB, the +- on Armour roll due to the fame.
2. Donno, maybe just dont let it stack with MB on the reroll.
3. This makes Apotho worse in terms of one game but will help team in long run. Keep it as it, Men must die.
4. Nope, nobody will pay for dead mens. Silly.
4a. Resurrection, maybe at the cost of 5 times the players value with only a 50% chance at a full recovery.
5. keep it as is. It's great.
6 Keep it as is.
7. Claw should be +2 to armor roll (to a min of 7 av). At least treemen should count as having 8 av... Or have claw not stack with MB.
8. I think MB is fine as is.
9. Regenerate is already horribly inconsistent, 50% only.
10 Blitz is a game changer, its a huge swing. But you can have gentleman's agreement( wouldn't work in box) that any blitz will only be used to move players one space. This has to be agreed upon before the game. Not sure how other teams in the league or tourney would feel about this. If both Coaches agreed to do it, or with its against the spirit of the game and/or fumbll guidelines.
2. Donno, maybe just dont let it stack with MB on the reroll.
3. This makes Apotho worse in terms of one game but will help team in long run. Keep it as it, Men must die.
4. Nope, nobody will pay for dead mens. Silly.
4a. Resurrection, maybe at the cost of 5 times the players value with only a 50% chance at a full recovery.
5. keep it as is. It's great.
6 Keep it as is.
7. Claw should be +2 to armor roll (to a min of 7 av). At least treemen should count as having 8 av... Or have claw not stack with MB.
8. I think MB is fine as is.
9. Regenerate is already horribly inconsistent, 50% only.
10 Blitz is a game changer, its a huge swing. But you can have gentleman's agreement( wouldn't work in box) that any blitz will only be used to move players one space. This has to be agreed upon before the game. Not sure how other teams in the league or tourney would feel about this. If both Coaches agreed to do it, or with its against the spirit of the game and/or fumbll guidelines.
Posted by harvestmouse on 2013-04-09 09:31:23
1. Maybe
2. This or something else.
3. Yes.
4. No
4a No
5a. No
5b. Yes.
6. No
7. No
8. No
9. No.
10. No.
2. This or something else.
3. Yes.
4. No
4a No
5a. No
5b. Yes.
6. No
7. No
8. No
9. No.
10. No.
Posted by JimmyFantastic on 2013-04-09 10:09:49
GFI came about in 2nd ed cos they could fall on astrogranite. I agree that it is stupid on a grass pitch.
Posted by jamesfarrell129 on 2013-04-09 11:35:58
I've seen plenty of professional sportsmen fall over stretching for a ball and seriously knacker themselves, so GFIs causing injuries is fine.
Dodging away from someone... well, the dice is to represent the opponent trying to stop you, sticking a leg out or whatever. So again, fine.
Give the crowd piling on and MB... and claw, why not. Crowd-kill all mens!
Dodging away from someone... well, the dice is to represent the opponent trying to stop you, sticking a leg out or whatever. So again, fine.
Give the crowd piling on and MB... and claw, why not. Crowd-kill all mens!
Posted by Chainsaw on 2013-04-09 15:27:30
Almost all these ideas suck.
1) FAME already typically favours the better coach. Better coaches also do more surfs. So you're making it even easier for a better coach to dominate.
2) LRB4 PO was hardly used. This makes it a big guy skill.
3) Possibly the only worthwhile idea in this list.
4) Actually on second thought this would be OK.
4a) OMG stop being such a pixel hugger. This would make it impossible to kill off freak players because they would always get re-hired. THIS IDEA IS SO TERRIBLE I CAN NOT FATHOM HOW YOU CAN THINK IT IS GOOD.
5&6) Ugh... you miss the point. Hey, let's take all the risk out of BB. Even better, let's get rid of the dice? That seems to be what you're suggesting.
7) What a terrible idea. "Oh, this 1 mutation is not to my liking... so I propose to wreck all mutations."
8) Let go of your pixels. There is nothing wrong with MB. Pixels die; accept this fact and be happier.
9) If you want to nerf regeneration, you need to improve skeletons/zombies so they're not the worst players in the game. Regen is balanced by weak roster, in case you didn't realise. You're not losing to guys who can pass regeneration rolls because they pass regeneration rolls. BB is not that simple.
10) AKA let's take all the fun out of the game by taking out all the events that I don't like against me. I propose you learn to set up your offense so that blitz or perfect defense isn't going to undo you completely.
1) FAME already typically favours the better coach. Better coaches also do more surfs. So you're making it even easier for a better coach to dominate.
2) LRB4 PO was hardly used. This makes it a big guy skill.
3) Possibly the only worthwhile idea in this list.
4) Actually on second thought this would be OK.
4a) OMG stop being such a pixel hugger. This would make it impossible to kill off freak players because they would always get re-hired. THIS IDEA IS SO TERRIBLE I CAN NOT FATHOM HOW YOU CAN THINK IT IS GOOD.
5&6) Ugh... you miss the point. Hey, let's take all the risk out of BB. Even better, let's get rid of the dice? That seems to be what you're suggesting.
7) What a terrible idea. "Oh, this 1 mutation is not to my liking... so I propose to wreck all mutations."
8) Let go of your pixels. There is nothing wrong with MB. Pixels die; accept this fact and be happier.
9) If you want to nerf regeneration, you need to improve skeletons/zombies so they're not the worst players in the game. Regen is balanced by weak roster, in case you didn't realise. You're not losing to guys who can pass regeneration rolls because they pass regeneration rolls. BB is not that simple.
10) AKA let's take all the fun out of the game by taking out all the events that I don't like against me. I propose you learn to set up your offense so that blitz or perfect defense isn't going to undo you completely.
Posted by WhatBall on 2013-04-09 15:29:01
You want to fix BB you say? Easy, just give me full control of the rules. :D
Posted by keggiemckill on 2013-04-09 15:41:20
I second what pythrrr said..... Yes I said it.
Posted by bghandras on 2013-04-09 16:29:06
I dont like those.
Game needs background, reasoning (fluff), and soung and balanced rules to operate on the long run.
The trick with game design is to find both fluff, and right mechanic. Going all in on fluff, while completely neglecting the machanic and dont give a sh** to that is a no go. Rated 1 for poor game design proposals.
Game needs background, reasoning (fluff), and soung and balanced rules to operate on the long run.
The trick with game design is to find both fluff, and right mechanic. Going all in on fluff, while completely neglecting the machanic and dont give a sh** to that is a no go. Rated 1 for poor game design proposals.
Posted by PainState on 2013-04-09 16:45:59
Rated a 1 for to many feeble attempts to change BB to your liking, until those rules changes dont roll the right dice and you are still get "diced". Which then means another barrage of rules changes.
Rated a 6 for a good ole fashion whine session with a 6 pack of beer and a computer.
So overall rating...3 Effort compounded by futility results in a push.
Rated a 6 for a good ole fashion whine session with a 6 pack of beer and a computer.
So overall rating...3 Effort compounded by futility results in a push.