Posted by Frankenstein on 2009-01-17 13:17:38

No.

Posted by Skolopender on 2009-01-17 13:27:14

Nah... MOAR FOWLS!

Posted by Zombie69 on 2009-01-17 14:07:06

That's like asking "to block or not to block". Fouling is part of the game, like any other action, and has its uses, like any other. Just learn to use it!

And yeah, definitely blitz the gobbo, for the 2 SPPs.

Posted by Purplegoo on 2009-01-17 14:31:27

Stop equating being a 'fair' player to having anything to do with fouling. This isn't real life, it's not a sport you play, it's a board game which features six options that your player can choose from in a turn in order to forward your chances of winning. If you ignore one of those six, you're not being pure of heart, you're simply running the hundred meters with your shoelaces tied together.

Posted by torsoboy on 2009-01-17 14:33:29

If you want to win more often, you should use every tool the rules provide you with, and fouling is one of them. Players are temporary, winning is forever. Keep fouling.

Posted by Buur on 2009-01-17 15:37:12

I think you should start a thread about this important question!

-Buur

Posted by asharak on 2009-01-17 16:12:36

For the gobbo - Yep, I'd have blitzed him. You had caused but a single casualty that game, a second would get you +1 on your fan factor roll. That combined with the 2 SPP's for a cas make it more than worth it, especially as it is just a gobbo so doesn't cost your opponent much anyway.

Posted by Wolfes on 2009-01-17 16:56:55

myself i fool very little, but i would have blitzed the gobbo

Posted by SillySod on 2009-01-17 17:35:27

Metagoo said pretty much everything you need to know about fouling.

Posted by veron on 2009-01-17 17:42:37

Want to know how people feel about fouing? Well now! This should be just what you are looking for then:

http://fumbbl.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=204

Let me know when you're done reading it and I can find you another one :-D

Posted by Malmir on 2009-01-17 17:43:34

I'd have definitely tried the dodge to go for the win...

Posted by Pirog on 2009-01-17 20:36:46

"Stop equating being a 'fair' player to having anything to do with fouling. This isn't real life, it's not a sport you play..."

I strongly disagree. While Blood Bowl isn't a sport it still simulates a sport. And fouling is representing breaking the rules of the simulated game. While it's certainly a valid option, since it's a part of the game mechanics, I definately think that it can be valued as "unfair" to foul a lot. It's not different from pulling shirts in soccer or cross checking in hockey. Just because you can do something doesn't always mean it's right in every situation.

And while it is a game it is also a game where games are sometimes played with teams that have taken a lot of time and effort to build. So yes, it's just "pixels", but that doesn't mean it is stupid to care about the pixels. That's like if I threw your TV into the ground and said "Hey, it's just plastic. You can trade paper for a new one."

Posted by Purplegoo on 2009-01-17 21:14:20

That logic is so, so flawed. It's a mechanic in a board game! If a sport suffered the number of pitch invasions / throw a rocks BB did, there would be clamp downs, bans and stadia closed.

It's a _mechanic_ that simulates professional cheating in a real sport, but that's where the analogy ends. Why is knuckledusters an _allowed_ game mechanic for instance? These are mythical creatures, for the love of crap.

It's a calculated risk put into the game to give you a logical problem, or a tactic to pursue. It's not underhand (from a coaching point of view), evil, unfair or wrong. War isn't very legal, but if they put a UN mechanic in Risk, that would be chuff all fun.

I just realise I let myself get drawn into a fouling debate. I'm so done! Whadda mistakea to makea.

Posted by EvolveToAnarchism on 2009-01-17 21:31:24

It's always a balance between what will raise or lower your Fun Factor (and your opponent's Fun Factor). I find it admirable that you seem to consider your opponent's Fun Factor as well. If so, you are a rare breed on Fumbbl.

I try to consider my opponents enjoyment of the game when things get out of hand. If I'm up by a couple of scores, I tend to go soft on defense (and definitely don't foul much) and give them a reasonable chance to get at least a single TD out of the match, but I rarely pass up a chance to earn some extra SPP on a block.

Maybe I'll reconsider it a bit more now. Thanks for the interesting post.

Posted by Deatheart on 2009-01-17 21:45:32

Why would you not foul? It is the coaches decision to leave a player vulnrable, turn one or 16, they should play the game, just casue fouls can get you ejected from the game dosnt mean it shouldnt be done. That would be like saying they shouldnt allow any one to buy star players with weapons cause thats cheating TOO!

Someone works hard to build a team good they tried to keep thier players safe, take no risks. If they want thier player safe have thier best players foul so they will be ejected and are not on the pitch to be injured!

I dont like having a player die, and yeah it feels cheap on turn 16 when it has nothing to do with the game, but I would much rather play teams that get beat up then power puff teams that never had any one beat on them and so all thier players are happy and helthy and i got 5 nigglers! Complaining about fouling sounds more like a lame attemt to get people to agree to not foul, last i checked was agains the rules of FUMBBL.

Why would you not blitz! you get one per turn just like a foul use it! possiblity to cause casulty, hence spp, and your team gets better. In leauge as i am learning it is even more important to beat down your competitors, even if i am loosing i should inflict as much damage on a team as possible, so while i may not win this game they are weak for next game. If i am in a KO tourny and i just got the living crap beat out of me and squeaked by with a win and i see my next opponnent just ran up the score never took a hit because some puff cake candy A%$ thought hurting his opponents team was very sports man like? Is that fair either?

I say Beat the other team down, its in the rules for a reason, yeah they took away spp from it and made it easier to be caught and all the other Nurf wrapping that Living rule book installed into the game from the original verison (and deathzone by far the best part of the game and truely missed in the client) But it is still there and not using it is like agreeing to not throw blocks and just dodge around eachother passing the ball and hoping you dont hurt your self!

Posted by paulhicks on 2009-01-17 22:51:09

Veron wrote:

"Want to know how people feel about fouing? Well now! This should be just what you are looking for then:

http://fumbbl.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=204

Let me know when you're done reading it and I can find you another one :-D"



well actualy that shows you what people thought about fouling up until mid 2004 (and what they thought about a wide range of other off topic subjects).... i'd say the general attitude to fouling accross the whole of the comunity has changed dramaticaly (NOTE: i don't claim everyones attitudes have changed... but the comunity over all)

Posted by Royston on 2009-01-17 23:06:35

I'm quite glad this has brought out a lot of debate. It seems that fouling is quite a hot topic, as is sportsmanship.

The Ogre team I was playing against was only a few games old but was already down a couple of players. I thought it sporting of me to not try to kill his players. Perhaps me being new to Fumbbl makes me slightly naive on this subject.

I'd also like to point out that I never mentioned once in my post that I wouldn't foul nor is this blog to do with complaining about fouling sounds in a lame attempt to get people to agree not to foul (paraphrased from below).

In fact in the game I am playing right now, the opposing coach asked "fouls accepted or ?" right at the beginning of the match, to which my reply was "I don't mind. Play how you usually would".

Posted by westerner on 2009-01-18 00:38:39

Royston, pls be aware that pre-game agreements on fouling are against site rules. The opposing coach's question was inappropriate.

Posted by SillySod on 2009-01-18 04:27:06

"That's like if I threw your TV into the ground and said 'Hey, it's just plastic. You can trade paper for a new one.'"

Man, that would be a stupid thing to say. Alas my TV buying plans were twarted when I discovered they wanted cotton rather than paper. They didnt accept polyester synthetics either :(

Posted by Royston on 2009-01-18 13:30:30

Coming back to this in my latest game I thought I would foul and got the following comments from my opposition:

"wtf?"
"what the f*** did you do that for"

And after I said it was to gain an advantage so my guy could score unhindered:

"nub"

It was at that point I regretted not putting the boot in more.

Posted by nigglefish on 2009-01-22 00:24:15

I generally only play coaches that I know in real life. It's about knowing my opponent and being able to run across the office to do a victory dance when my Elves convert and score from the other end of the pitch in one turn. This means that at the moment I only play one player - but we have fun, so, "hey". (Only thing is; I think our teams might be in the wrong division.)

But being close to my opponent means that the old foul issue comes up a lot. Out of 19 recent games I have committed 19 fouls and every time I need to justify why I did it. "You bring a TREE onto the field against my Amazons and they HAVE to chop it down before it squashes them all." Gratuitous kicking of my opponent's star player in turn 16 would cause a fallout between us that would be felt in real life. For as long as it takes for us to remember it's just a game, anyway. Myself, I don't mind fouls at all, but my opponent does treat them as if they are against the spirit of a fair game. That said, if I'm coaching an Orc team he doesn't seem to mind so much. I guess it's a role-playing thing where it's acceptable for a goblin to run around breaking the rules. Luckily, he is coming around to my point of view and has 9 fouls for 19 games himself now - mostly in recent games.

But it's the issue of the last turn bashes that we are really struggling with now. We have a history of making a turn-over in the last turn if there is nothing left to do but bash. For my part this has been because my opponent used to have a hard time keeping a team for more than a few games without it's rating going backwards. It was his first few games. The idea of knocking out another player just for the star player points didn't feel sporting at all and I didn't want him to give up on the game out of frustration. For him, the last turn bashing is just unsporting in general. But lately I have been thinking more about the role-playing angle again. Having been given a 3-0 thrashing by a bunch of Elves who have spread themselves thin in the last seconds of the game trying for yet another touch down; what Dwarf team is going to shrug their shoulders and walk off the field without putting in one last block or boot? I think we are too precious about our teams and we should let them play until the end of the game in a manner that suits their natures. Maybe if I have a team of Humans and I have a theme by which they are all priests or something they can spend the last turn playing for their fallen opponents (but God help those halflings with the choir-boy theme). But otherwise...

Posted by nigglefish on 2009-01-22 01:18:16

Update: I just cast my first fireball. apparently that's "dirty" too.