Posted by harvestmouse on 2015-11-25 03:21:06

Wrong on lots of counts. Iran and ISIS could never be allies in any way what so ever. Iran is THE enemy of ISIS.

Germany knew exactly what it was doing and who would be involved when they played the pact game. The problem was Italy revoked on their pact and they messed up with Belgium.

Again, no place on FUMBBL imo.

Posted by keggiemckill on 2015-11-25 03:23:41

Its already been figured out. Putin and Obama are going to grease wrestle it out. In one way I think Obama's height advantage might sway the result, but i can't bet against the Putin. He is on a whole different level.

Posted by PainState on 2015-11-25 03:38:40

"Again, no place on FUMBBL imo." - Harverstmouse.

I disagree, the majority of FUMBBL coaches are in Europe and Europe is about to be engulfed by the flames of war once again. This is now moving at a very rapid pace.

"Iran is THE enemy of ISIS."- Harverstmouse

really? I do not see it that way based on what the President of the United States is saying.

Posted by PainState on 2015-11-25 03:43:36

Also

"Iran is THE enemy of ISIS."- Harverstmouse

Logic says then why send your minions into Western Europe and not infiltrate Iran and blow up Tehran?

Why "recruit" in the "west" on a mission statement that the "west" must fall? Why not recruit that the ancient persian empire is rising once again to defeat the caliphate?

Posted by coombz on 2015-11-25 04:05:04

i think it's fine to have these kind of discussions on FUMBBL, but this blog isn't the right place.

the only correct use for a PainState blog is comedy - us European or Pacific types read it and have a good laugh at how dumb a certain subset of the American population continues to be

Posted by Dominik on 2015-11-25 04:08:20

Mohammed had two goals: Conquer Constantinople and conquer Rome.
Rome is yet to fall so the western world is THE enemy of ISIS.

Posted by PainState on 2015-11-25 04:14:27

Mr. coombz please direct me to the right blog then.

Now if the correct use of PainState blog is for comedic reasons, they why cannot I use my own blog to make you guys laugh and have some fun?

poke some fun at some ignorant Americans and their stupid ways?

I cant use my own blog for that?

come on man, let me, make you laugh. Why deny, yourself the chuckles?

Posted by PainState on 2015-11-25 04:21:13

Just looking at my blogs this year. almost 90% of them are in a fun nature, make you laugh type of way.

Come on coombz, please do not end the fun.

Posted by NerdBird on 2015-11-25 04:25:18

There is no doubt this is the correct place to discuss this in my opinion. We have people from all over the world and we can get their insight on the subject. We all know American news outlets do not always cover the whole story so it is good to hear some other viewpoints.

Posted by coombz on 2015-11-25 04:26:17

What? I didn't say you can't use it for that.

Keep on keepin' on man! We all love a good laugh.

Posted by harvestmouse on 2015-11-25 04:34:31

"Iran is THE enemy of ISIS."- Harverstmouse

really? I do not see it that way based on what the President of the United States is saying.


ISIS is a group who's main goal is to have an Orthodox Islamic State, that being the Sunni Muslim religion. As they have done in Northern Iraq and Syria they wish to wrestle the rule from other Islamic religions. That being Khurds and Shia.

Persia/Iran is the largest Shia populace and therefore the sworn enemy of the extremist Islamic State. This is why relations between the West and Iran have improved of late. ISIS at a guess originally had little interest in the West (at this/that time) until the West blundered into their affairs or..............did this or did that, depending on what vague story you wish to believe.

Bottom line is.............as much as Americans want to hate Iran, there is absolutely no way they would follow Sunni rule, nor would they or even could side with them. It goes totally against their religion, which is the whole crux of the problem.

Posted by PainState on 2015-11-25 04:36:34

"i think it's fine to have these kind of discussions on FUMBBL, but this blog isn't the right place. " - coombz

Direct me to the right place, sir. Dont "shine" me on.Show me the promised land I can be myself.

Posted by PainState on 2015-11-25 04:41:27

"as much as Americans want to hate Iran"-harvderstmouse

WOW!!!!

The Untied States just went to the "wall" with the UN and everybody else in Europe to allow Iran to become a Nuclear nation, cleared the path so they could have ICBM's and dominate the region.

The United States does not hate Iran, we are their #1 reference that Iran is one really cool country.

Posted by Dominik on 2015-11-25 04:49:18

The former prime minister (!) of Turkey, Necmettin Erbakan:
"Europeans believe that Muslims migrated to Europe solely for the purpose of earning money. But Allah plans something else."

You non-Muslims have to understand that EVERYTHING a muslim does is to spread Islam and follow the rules of Islam. Only by this he gets a chance to entry the paradise.

To spread Islam and follow the rules of Islam is an offensive declaration of war to everyone else outside the Ummah.
You can stay ignorant or hesitant and you will see fall country by country, as it was the case with the Byzantine Empire (where the other Christian Countries refused to help against the Muslim attacks). The result was that it put millions of Christians and Europeans into slavery for centuries by the following subjugation of Southeastern Europe and it could be successful a second time in Middle and Western Europe.
If, which I still doubt will be the case ever, Islam conquers Western and Middle Europe, it will not stop but try to dominate the whole world. It could be that at a certain point they become military powerful, backed by billions of Muslims and a strong economy in Europe, to attack America then.

Posted by Mr_Foulscumm on 2015-11-25 05:28:14

As far as dumb blogs go...

Posted by coombz on 2015-11-25 06:19:37

"Direct me to the right place, sir. Dont "shine" me on.Show me the promised land I can be myself."

I think it's pretty much anywhere but here. Like I said, leave this space for comic relief :>

Whenever you've got someone (you) saying things like "Turkey/Iran/ISIS and the Untied States are in essence allies right now. It is Russia/Syria and Europe against them" you know that they are either permanently on some kind of weird troll vibe, or an utterless clueless...person.

Either way, there isn't much point discussing real world events with someone who doesn't live in the real world ;)

Posted by Gozer_the_Gozerian on 2015-11-25 06:45:18

I for one, welcome our new Muslim overlords, and I'd like to remind them I can be helpful rounding up others to toil in their underground falafel mines.

Posted by BillBrasky on 2015-11-25 07:16:21

The Euros are sadly decaying.

They don't have the proper reproduction rate (2.1 per household). I think they average 1.1 per house. In 60 years, if not assimilated before that, they will be a skeleton crew. The Muslim countries have something like a 4.0 reproduction rate per household. They've published and made public many times their goal of converting us by using all legal means to conquer the Western world from within.

Euros will get outbred & assimilated.

America would be in the same danger, but for, our Mexican influx.

As for the current war, that is crazy stuff. We need to unite all free people and stand against religious zealots (and other crazy totalitarians).

Posted by Balle2000 on 2015-11-25 08:09:56

fumbbl for political debate? :-/

Posted by vaclav on 2015-11-25 09:07:32

Its all about circling Russia by Nato and allyies. Isis is not main enemy to both US and Turkey. West messed all this in Arab countreys by supporting greater evil.

Posted by Cloggy on 2015-11-25 10:19:18

Quote from our professor in International Politics: "Some context needs to be put into this that I did not put in the blog.

Turkey/Iran/ISIS and the Untied States are in essence allies right now. It is Russia/Syria and Europe against them."

So the US and Europe are or separate sides of the conflict now according to you? Where the blooming heck did you dig up that beauty? :D

Do you honestly think we will forget so soon that one of our airliners got shot down by Putin's guys?

Posted by mekutata on 2015-11-25 10:36:25

blame canada

Posted by the.tok on 2015-11-25 11:03:07

ISIS and Iran being allies is the most absurd thing i've read in a long time.

This says a lot on how Islam branches are misunderstood. To Salafi Sunni, Shia are amonst the worst kind of heretics. They have a clergy, and tend to follow them on reforming the texts, which from a sunni point of view, means they refute the perfectness of the Quran and thus commit a blasphemy.

Furthermore, sunni consider religious and political power to be linked to one person (which we can clearly see in ISIS) whereas for shia, the two powers should not be held by the same individual.

tl;dr sunni and shia are long time best enemies. No way ISIS and Iran can get along

Also, I don't see Turkey as an ally of ISIS either. It is not in their interest to have an essentially warmonger country forming on their borders

Posted by Wreckage on 2015-11-25 11:06:17

Russia is in a difficult situation. It is not in position to threaten with war and it can't afford to let things go either.

The NATO is in a position where they would have to follow through on the alliance unless they want it to break apart and that would be something no NATO country can afford. Russia will be aware of this.

It would of course be a vastly different situation from WW1 just because in WW1 there were local alliances all over the place while now we have two clear cold war fronteers clashing on each other again.

Fortunatly the situation didn't escalate to a point where some head of state was murdered, so as of now the situation can be still deescalated. It can also continue to escalate but its very hard to predict what exactly will come of it. Save to say it's not going to be an open war between Russia and a NATO nation.

Posted by Uedder on 2015-11-25 14:55:16

It's all been calculated. Do you really think someone could ever not see how removing Gheddafi, Mubarak and Saddam would cause this kind of reaction? Those guys, as bad as they were, used to be the only stable laicist powers in the zone.

And then they also tried to remove Ahmadinejad in Iran and Assad in Syria.

And then of course someone is giving weapons, money, training and logistic support to ISIS. Someone buys their oil. Someone buys diamonds from Boko Haram.

If they really wanted to crush these guys, they could've done it long time ago. They could still do it today. Thing is they don't. Why? That, I don't know.

It's a chess game where players are seing moves and turns ahead of years, we only see too little of what is really happening and can't understand the whole picture. Whe see the consequences but ignore the reasons. Anyway, this is going nowhere good.

Posted by dode74 on 2015-11-25 15:11:47

This is too good and too accurate to be my assessment. Spot on though.

Apologies for the long post but I think I've finally figured out what is happening in the Middle East:
President Assad (who is bad) is a nasty guy who got so nasty his people rebelled and the Rebels (who are good) started winning (Hurrah!). But then some of the rebels turned a bit nasty and are now called Islamic State ( who are definitely bad!) and some continued to support democracy (who are still good.)
So the Americans (who are good) started bombing Islamic State (who are bad) and giving arms to the Syrian Rebels (who are good) so they could fight Assad (who is still bad) which was good.
By the way, there is a breakaway state in the north run by the Kurds who want to fight IS ( which is a good thing ) but the Turkish authorities think they are bad, so we have to say they are bad whilst secretly thinking they're good and giving them guns to fight IS (which is good) but that is another matter.
Getting back to Syria.
So President Putin ( who is bad, cos he invaded Crimea and the Ukraine and killed lots of folks including that nice Russian man in London with polonium poisoned sushi ) has decided to back Assad (who is still bad) by attacking IS (who are also bad) which is sort of a good thing?
But Putin ( still bad ) thinks the Syrian Rebels (who are good) are also bad, and so he bombs them too, much to the annoyance of the Americans (who are good) who are busy backing and arming the rebels (who are also good).
Now Iran (who used to be bad, but now they have agreed not to build any nuclear weapons and bomb Israel are now good) are going to provide ground troops to support Assad (still bad) as are the Russians (bad) who now have ground troops and aircraft in Syria.
So a Coalition of Assad (still bad) Putin (extra bad) and the Iranians (good, but in a bad sort of way) are going to attack IS (who are bad) which is a good thing, but also the Syrian Rebels (who are good) which is bad.
Now the British (obviously good, except some freak called Corbyn who, incidentally wears a corduroy jacket, which is dead give away as that's never good) and the Americans (also good) cannot attack Assad (still bad) for fear of upsetting Putin (bad) and Iran (good / bad) and now they have to accept that Assad might not be that bad after all compared to IS (who are super bad).
So Assad (bad) is now probably good, being better than IS (but let’s face it, drinking your own wee is better than IS so no real choice there) and since Putin and Iran are also fighting IS that may now make them Good. America (still Good) will find it hard to arm a group of rebels being attacked by the Russians for fear of upsetting Mr Putin (now good) and that nice mad Ayatollah in Iran (also Good) and so they may be forced to say that the Rebels are now Bad, or at the very least abandon them to their fate. This will lead most of them to flee to Turkey and on to Europe or join IS (still the only constantly bad group).
To Sunni Muslims, an attack by Shia Muslims (Assad and Iran) backed by Russians will be seen as something of a Holy War, and the ranks of IS will now be seen by the Sunnis as the only Jihadis fighting in the Holy War and hence many Muslims will now see IS as Good (Doh!)
Sunni Muslims will also see the lack of action by Britain and America in support of their Sunni rebel brothers as something of a betrayal (mmmm... might have a point) and hence we will be seen as Bad.
So now we have America (now bad) and Britain (also bad) providing limited support to Sunni Rebels (bad) many of whom are looking to IS (Good / bad) for support against Assad (now good) who, along with Iran (also Good) and Putin (also, now, unbelievably, Good) are attempting to retake the country Assad used to run before all this started?
I hope that clears all this up for you

Posted by mister__joshua on 2015-11-25 15:24:19

That's brilliant. That's sort of how I understood it, but much better written :)

Posted by the.tok on 2015-11-25 15:37:03

What a complete mess this region has become.

I think we can all thank GW Bush for the great idea that invading Irak was, and all our leaders for following mindlessly afterwards

Posted by cdassak on 2015-11-25 15:40:24

http://www.vox.com/2015/11/14/9735102/syria-isis-history-video

Posted by Wreckage on 2015-11-25 15:52:06

Dode sums up pretty well what the US is printing.
Not sure about the last part.

Uedder wrote: "If they really wanted to crush these guys, they could've done it long time ago. They could still do it today. Thing is they don't. Why? That, I don't know."

That is actually easy to answer. It's no secret that the US has tried to remove the pro Russian Assad regime ever since the mid 2000nds and supported rebels in the region long before the region finally really destabilized.
They clearly want a regime change and do not want the region to fall back under Assads control. When you read the press protocls of the meetings it has been made abandundly clear time and time again that a future of Syria with Assad is not an option as far as the NATO countries are concerned.

At the same time one should be aware that you basically could take most leaders in the world and paint them in a very negative light. And you would not even have to lie about anything. So, we have the Assad regime that has committed some crimes in the wake of its destruction, but it is also the Assad regime that has kept the country stable for years, that has created an economy, wealth and education.

On the other hand we have an organisation like the Islamic State that tries to reimplement the social life of the time when Muhammed lived 1:1. An extremist right wing group that is absolutely uncompromising in creating a reality that is so terrfiyng to any medium sunni muslim that the propaganda attempts to demonize them fall far behind what they actually do.
They thrive on chaos and teach by example of comittment to their cause on consequences to question them or stand in their way.
They are the reason people flee the country in masses. You have to imagine the citizens of Syria in the big cities not to be much different from the people in Europe or the US. For most of them religion has a very small significance. When you are a normal person you don't want to end up in the hands of ISIS.
It doesn't matter if you are in an Assad controlled region but you don't want to be in an ISIS controlled region.

So when we talk about ISIS one has to understand that although ISIS actions sort of align with US interests, their methods and goals are so unacceptable today that no government in the entire world could reasonably support them.
ISIS is in essence an enemy of the entire world.

Posted by ImpactedAnimal on 2015-11-25 16:00:36

Dode for the win - brilliant summary cheers mate and also good to see it clearly laid out for those who do not have all the facts at their disposal.

perhaps also worth mentioning that initially, partially out of disgust towards assad, Saudi arabia funded many islamist groups prior to the birth of isis and it was only the birth and rise to power of Isis that convinced them that further funding could cause horrendous political instability in their own kingdom.

Something else which i find slightly amusing for some reason is that hesbollah and Isis are at war with one other as a result of the shia sunni divide and of course where their funding is coming from (hesbollah iran - Isis initially from Gulf states but now much more autonomous with an estimated wealth of 2 trillion).

As far as comments that they could easily be defeated go i would have to point to this abundance of wealth which is continually replenished via kidnappings and of course the trade of oil barrels.

i think some of the misguided comments about Turkey being on the side of Isis relate to the reports that much of the oil owned by isis is apparently going their way (as in being sold to people in Turkey). This does not mean the Turkish state is complicit.

as a brief aside Iran's supreme ayatollah has stated that there will be no isreal within 25 years and has also suggested that, if each muslim killed a jew, given there are more muslims than jews... the jewish peoples of the world could be wiped out.... great guy... good crowd, good times

Posted by Arktoris on 2015-11-25 16:21:38

the answer s simple. Obama is extremely frightened of a real leader like Putin.

Turkey is not.

Now the ball is in Putin's court. Is he all image...or not.

Posted by cdassak on 2015-11-25 16:40:18

@IA
The comments about Turkey being on the side of ISIS are not only related to the oil (which may or may not be true) but also to the fact that they have been (allegedly?) bombing the Kurds, the only side that has been fighting ISIS on the ground for quite some time now (mind you to promote their own interests).
All major and minor players have their own agenda and that's what's making this thing a total mess with no clear way out.

Posted by Wreckage on 2015-11-25 16:41:34

What makes me wonder tho is if the incident really happend in turkish airspace or not. I feel like it makes the turkish position kinda weak that the pilots crashed in Syrian territory. I'm also not sure if it really makes any difference.

Since you people seem to sometimes not have all the facts: The area the russian jets were targeting were apparently pro turkish rebels on the Syrian side of the border. So the incident must have take place close to the border and its not inconcievable that it was crossed.

Posted by cdassak on 2015-11-25 16:52:59

Lots of trolling on Turkey being so sensitive about airspace going on here.
"If we shot down a plane each time they entered our airspace, they wouldn't have an F-16 to intercept the Su-24"
Anyway, it seems that it'll just be an economic war at this point.

Posted by Wreckage on 2015-11-25 17:02:12

cdkassak, the turks and the kurds have been in an ongoing conflict about control of turkey for a very long time. The kurds are basically a sub group that was involved in the initial conquest period of the Ottoman empire. For those who are unaware of this, Turkey used to control most of the middle east aswell as Greece.
The Kurds perspective is that they are the true rulers of Anatolia (the area where Turkey is). They have some influence in parliament and differing people try to sort of find common ground with the government while others oppose it. The current turkish conservative leader is not very forthcoming in starting a dialogue tho. Extremist Kurdish groups like those that fight in Syria now have been responsible for terrorist attacks on turkish soil aswell as on European soil in the 90ies of the 20th century.
Kurdish interests now revolve around creating an independent state for turkey from their own. For turkey the Kurdish area has been the biggest area of conflict for years and turkey is basically just looking for an excuse to march into the area and subdue the people there.
Turkey originally stayed neutral in the conflict with IS because the Kurds n Turkey and Syria basically form a buffer zone between Turkey and Syria. Obviously Turkey wasn't Pro ISIS but anti Kurdish.

Earlier this year the US tried to get Turkey on board with the whole fight against ISIS, so turkey made the US that they could in return for their involvement hope of the US backing in also removing the Kurdish threat.
But that turned out to be not in the interest with the European leaders who have now for quite a while good relations with the Kurds and have been also the main target for weapons delivery from Europe. So if Turkey was to attack them now that would interfere with the effords that have been made by Germany and France.
So the Nato partners basically sat around a table, talked it through and the US decided to not back Turkey anymore in removing the Kurds. Turkey on the other hand was now in position where it was actively targeted by IS and couldn't back out anymore.

So Turkey on the side of the NATO. It is against ISIS and it is even more against the armed Kurdish groups.

The kurds have their own guerillia armies and have been responsible for multiple terror attacks on European soil in the 90ies.

Posted by Wreckage on 2015-11-25 17:11:48

"Lots of trolling on Turkey being so sensitive about airspace going on here."

Actually you're not doing me justice here.
I said the airplane didn't land on turkish ground and that makes the turkish version of the story questionable.
The Russian version of the story is that the airplane never was on turkish territory.

I didn't say they shouldn't be sensitive about foreign fighters violating their airspace. I absolutely respect that they do take it seriously and have to take it seriously.

Posted by Mr_Foulscumm on 2015-11-25 17:28:57

Don't you guys have something better to do than get worked up over stuff you have zero control over?

Posted by cdassak on 2015-11-25 17:29:27

Wasn't referring to you Wreckage, I meant trolling on Turkey going on in Greece.
And ofc I know all about the Kurds, public opinion has generally been positive about them. "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" as the saying goes.

Posted by coombz on 2015-11-25 19:43:33

when you get right down to brass tacks it really seems like someone just pressed the 'unpause' button on the Cold War y'know?

war by proxy in the ME

Posted by vaclav on 2015-11-26 00:02:16

LOL kume.. How come Turkey is your enemy when u you are both in NATO. And i remember when Purple chest, shadow and rest of the crew bombed me, you Cdassak went on street to protest against it.

Posted by Wreckage on 2015-11-26 00:10:01

"Don't you guys have something better to do than get worked up over stuff you have zero control over?"

I guess that's a reference to the LRB discussions on the site.

Posted by Mr_Foulscumm on 2015-11-26 01:14:03

Well, yes, it applies to that too :)

Posted by Balle2000 on 2015-11-26 05:29:31

Guys. Just stop. You're making a fool out of yourselves.

Posted by BillBrasky on 2015-11-26 05:50:14

That's an interesting position Balle2000.

How many political scientists view Fumbbl Blogs & take it seriously?

Posted by Wreckage on 2015-11-26 07:52:35

I'm all for the metaphysical debates about purpose of life, being, breathing and talking that Balle and Foulscumm are opening up but perhaps they are not suited for a blog about actual things and should be discussed in a separate blog by balle "Why we fool ourselves" or something :).

Foulscumm then could make a blog "Discussion is pointless - a fatalistic view on life" in which he debates the meaninglessness of his own existance and invites people not to comment on it because it doesn't matter.

In "why we fool ourselves" Balle can then dive into the psychological debth of the human mind and why it tends to believe any story it hears from some nutty fringe radio moderator instead of listening to the main stream media.
He then could shed some light on the worst emberassments of the various political groups and correct them by telling about his own view. And finally conclude with why he better should've shut up in the first place because he is not an expert and in his mind a person should never think or talk about something unless they are an expert. Although of course thinking and voting is ok. Just not talking. But I digress and will now leave the stage for our communication expert Balle.

Posted by Shakall on 2015-11-26 08:08:34

Dominik you are the number one fascist one FUMBBL and yes I hold you accountable for everything that happened during the WWII.

Posted by vaclav on 2015-11-26 08:15:11

and during fumbbl cup too!

Posted by Badoek on 2015-11-26 11:47:46

Nice write up by Dode. Reality is even more complicated than that. Emphasis should probably be made for some of us that it's a lot about perception of what's good/bad. Dode did that well for most of the Western world, I think but I'm a bit afraid some here might take it too literal? Anyone else care to write a similar thing for "their" "world"? vaclav?

Anyway, normally I shun blogs like this but I find this one has been a good read (actually except those calling to do this elsewhere, which I normally agree with haha).

We're in a lousy situation, that's for sure (both with IS and LRB) ;)

Posted by vaclav on 2015-11-26 12:48:23

# Sorry Badoek. although i liked the post i cant really simplify (or complicate if u more like it) like that. And i really don't represent "the other world", maybe better said the "molested world", as mine country was in similar situation like its now in Ukraine, Syria and so on... We here have no doubt about intensions of both sides, and its surley not on benefit of people of this nations.

Posted by Badoek on 2015-11-26 13:34:58

I don't know, I think at least SOME of it is well meant. Well meant, not well done I guess. It's hard for "the West" (both its leaders and the public, to a different degree though) to see things as theparty in this. And visa versa it's the same, I'm sure. To be clear: I do not mean to say your country is not part of "the West", just that you probably make a distinction between you and some of the other countries. Sometimes you're part of it, sometimes not so. Right?

Posted by Mr_Foulscumm on 2015-11-26 17:50:01

Why would I ever make that blog Wreckage? It's clearly pointless ;)

Posted by Arktoris on 2015-11-26 17:51:27

Summarizing:

Iran (a bit bad)
Syria (bad)
ISIS (bad, but created by America's military policies. Whatever they do...DoD is to blame as well)
Putin (Good)
Obama (Bad)
Turkey (Good too)

did I miss something?

Posted by Mr_Foulscumm on 2015-11-26 18:11:29

Iran (Idiots)
Syria (Idiots)
ISIS (Idiots)
Putin (Idiot)
Obama (Idiot)
Turkey (Idiots)

Fix it for you Ark! :)

Posted by Mr_Foulscumm on 2015-11-26 18:13:08

(That's if we're only talking about the governments and not the actual populations)

Posted by DeZigma on 2015-11-26 23:03:18

It's all about money ... FIFA, UEFA, UN, EU, US, RUS ... Saidly, but it's all about money!

Posted by Wreckage on 2015-11-27 00:57:15

I like foulscumms view (although 'idiot' wouldn't be my term to describe everybody).

In essence as long as you are trapped in differentiating the world in good and evil, you're already just drinking someones Kool-Aid.

People aren't one or the other but in order to create solidarity it is necessary to use a narrative that instills a feeling of national pride and demonizes somebody else as a common enemy.

This differentiation is at the core of what propaganda is.

Posted by Wreckage on 2015-11-27 01:05:58

Also I think you guys got it wrong about Iran.
Iran is still very bad (according to the western narrative).
If the US media made you think they are sorta ambivalent, they did a bad job.

The whole negotiation process with them focuses about how to stop them from obtaining nuclear weapons and there simply is a disagreement between Democrats and Republicans right now on what the best way is to do that.

That in this time of negotiation and cooperation falls the ISIS conflict with a common enemy is just a coincidence.

Posted by thoralf on 2015-11-27 05:50:09

ISIS challenged Anonymous and the challenge got accepted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AyN8J3MS3c

A pity Anonymous has not the same musical taste as Jack Warner:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RBWGlKM6ns

Now, you can proceed to blame Canada.

Posted by Arktoris on 2015-11-27 21:22:08

"In essence as long as you are trapped in differentiating the world in good and evil, you're already just drinking someones Kool-Aid."

umm, no. there is good and evil. If you are doing the work of the Lord or helping increase man's quality of life, you are doing good.

Life only appears hazy to those who's eyes are out of focus.

Posted by Wreckage on 2015-11-28 07:11:33

"umm, no. there is good and evil. If you are doing the work of the Lord or helping increase man's quality of life, you are doing good.

Life only appears hazy to those who's eyes are out of focus."

That sounds like something ISIS would say.

Posted by Arktoris on 2015-11-30 01:08:09

it's something successful adults say.

but I agree it's something ISIS would say...which is probably why I respect them more than liberals.

Posted by Wreckage on 2015-12-01 10:41:50

You're not going to be successful because you have an impaired view on the complexity of the world.

You can be successful in spite of it. Ethics aren't a requirement for success. But lemme tell you, if there are evil beings in the world, then it is those that justify their evil deeds by creating a narrative that paints their opponents as bad people.

And once two groups of people have stigmatized each other as evil there is no hope for there ever to be peace.

Posted by akaRenton on 2015-12-02 20:50:35

Awful lot of waffling nonsense in this one, but was worth the read just for dode74's response :D

Posted by Arktoris on 2015-12-24 04:20:28

If the world was complex Wreckage, all the animals would be dead. Life is simple to those who have their heads screwed on straight.

generations that have accomplished more than yours understood it. The animals in the forest understand it. Jesus understood it. And I understand it.

So question now is...why are you behind the learning curve?

being non-ethical usually leads to poverty. Sometimes you can temporarily get away with it, but when society falls apart...that's usually when guillotine comes for them.

as for your last statement, welcome to planet earth. If you want Utopia, you've come to the wrong place. The laws of physics prevent having Heaven on Earth.

But this is why nature invented war. When one group of people insist on being wrong and getting everything upsidedown...eventually war fixes that.